Kurt Neiswender: 0:32

Well, hey Jamie,

Jamie: 0:34

welcome to the show

Kurt Neiswender: 0:38

this is the show as as the subtitles say and welcome to our watchers from the early green room live stream But yeah, because this

Jamie: 0:51

is Remember the only

Kurt Neiswender: 0:58

the only live streamed Architecture podcast on YouTube and twitch.

Jamie: 1:04

Yes, it is

Kurt Neiswender: 1:05

Two, two locations for double the viewing pleasure.

Jamie: 1:10

That's right. And your co hosts are in two locations. So I'm Jamie and I'm in Austin and

Kurt Neiswender: 1:18

I'm Kurt and I'm in Flint, Michigan

Jamie: 1:21

in a new location in a new room.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:23

Yes. New digs. I'm upstairs. I've, I've, I've elevated, I'm moving on up. That's why I'm a little disoriented because now I, I gotta, I was actually looking a lot left before now I'm looking right. And then yeah, it'll take a little getting used to. I'm sure people will comment.

Jamie: 1:46

I will, I will say that it's not, I wouldn't call it a pet peeve because that's just not, I mean, I probably have some, if I really thought about it, but I will say it is something I notice. And I think it's something that can be adjusted for folks is we do live in a zoom. You know, video reality, you know, whether we like it or not communication, virtual stuff, right? Meetings, too many meetings, too much screen time. But I mean, I haven't, and you and I have joked about my inability to know the left from the right and the mirror that you're looking at and all that stuff. So that's on me. That's on me. I will own that. But putting that aside for a minute, it does bug me. When like, well, that bugs me. It just sort of, it's weird. It's like if you have a camera set up and you're doing like a meeting like this, and especially if you're like maybe hosting the meeting or like you're. I think you probably want to look at the camera like a little bit, like we're all like our eyes dance around on the screen anyways, because like sometimes it's weird. You sort of see yourself and you're like, what am I doing? You know, why am I there? I'm talking. So that always kind of happens anyways. But right now I appreciate the fact that you're looking at the camera because like to me, it's like, it gives me a bit of that audience part. Like when you're, when you're doing that, which is so hard. Yeah. You know, you've done this, especially from a faculty point of view, like, you know, when you're I can't imagine teaching like students in sort of a virtual realm. I mean, that I think I didn't ever do that. I have done a lot of presentations in a virtual realm. I've sat in on juries for some of your students in a virtual realm. And but That connection to people is super important. And I think you, it becomes, it's already artificial, right? You know, our, you know, this whole environment already feels a bit artificial. So long winded Jamie kind of on a soap box. We've ignored it for a while. Like think of the setup. Like, Kurt, before we, like, when we first got on, and I'm not outing him with this stuff, it's more of, like, he's proud of the setup, I was proud of his setup, like, he was, like, remarking about the, the angles and the lines and stuff, and it looks good, it looks good.

Kurt Neiswender: 4:21

Well, yeah, you know, the camera part, I, I, I, I still struggle with, as much as we've done this seven years, plus classes, although in class, I think I do a lot of this. Yeah. I'm waving my hands, trying to keep people awake, but the, you know, a friend of mine said that you should put a cutout of, of a face and put it around the camera, right? So that you talk to a face rather than just the lens. I keep waving my finger around the camera, but.

Jamie: 5:00

Like, I don't know, like you remember that movie with Tom Hanks when he worked for FedEx, did he work for FedEx and he got on the plane?

Kurt Neiswender: 5:10

You mean Stranded or Castaway? Castaway.

Jamie: 5:14

Yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 5:15

I was

Jamie: 5:15

FedEx. I think something like that. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. So are you saying that you're going to have a volleyball with like a, like, are you going to have, are you, are you going to have, I wasn't thinking of Wilson just, Oh, I mean,

Kurt Neiswender: 5:31

I could put a picture of Jamie's face around my camera, you know? Somebody familiar that you can relate to. Yeah.

Jamie: 5:42

Trust me. Trust me.

Kurt Neiswender: 5:43

So talk to talk. The monitor is over here and then the camera's over here. So like, I know I'll get used to it. So you know, I've been at a commission just for one day. I feel like I, I lost a bunch of time, but I didn't really, but I was sick yesterday.

Jamie: 6:02

It's all right. It's still January. Feeling a little

Kurt Neiswender: 6:04

better. Yeah.

Jamie: 6:05

Never missed anything.

Kurt Neiswender: 6:06

Yes, January, January part two. So I'm not drinking coffee. I know I'm just drinking water. Got to recover the hydration from my illness yesterday. So, but well, I is good.

Jamie: 6:27

Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I, I have two props on the coffee and just, you know, brace yourself. So, so got my, my, got my double R mug. So take a little sip. But so I decided to, at the holidays, I, I did make an order. So this was a, this was a gift gift to yourself, right? Yeah, this was the treat myself to a little bit of roof rootless. Um, some of their damn fine cup of coffee. Yeah, not

Kurt Neiswender: 7:07

ruthless. That would be me if I push these walls over. No, no. Well,

Jamie: 7:12

and also, you know, with, with David Lynch passing and all that stuff, it just, it made sense to go. And you know, I mean, because like from in my mind, the holidays and January, I just, January just keeps on going as long as January ever. And so, so as a counterpoint and a counterbalance to that, I just decided holidays need to also continue. Cause like, at least, at least in that way, I have a little bit of joy or balance or something, you know, and yeah, just sort of decided. So treated myself with that. But, but also noticed like rootless, your marketing is working. So they sometimes will send or, you know, drop things into the, you know, into the queue for me to see. And so I did also get. Which I've not tried. So tune in for the next episode and Jamie will have tried it. I promise. I did see that this, this was available.

Kurt Neiswender: 8:19

Oh, yeah. You got some. So, snake oil. There you go.

Jamie: 8:24

I got some snake oil.

Kurt Neiswender: 8:27

I like snake oil, too, actually. Well, I haven't tried it yet. So, I just, I just say. Well, you, you open that up and let us know. I had that a little while ago, I think.

Jamie: 8:37

Yeah. And I didn't

Kurt Neiswender: 8:38

send you that one. You bought your own. No, I bought my own.

Jamie: 8:41

You, we, we talked about it and you were, you know, just, you were raving about it and it. It's a limited batch, but they brought it back. And so I'm just going to read the bag because, you know, again, as

Kurt Neiswender: 8:52

you know, you, you can't gift snake oil. You have to buy snake oil. Yes.

Jamie: 8:59

Oh,

Kurt Neiswender: 9:00

Kurt must

Jamie: 9:01

be sold. That is gold. That, that is coffee sketch podcast gold right there. Folks.

Kurt Neiswender: 9:08

I was

Jamie: 9:09

it was right there. You are on. Yeah. So even in the description, right? Imagine a coffee that changed everything. One, I'm going to do my dramatic reading right now. One that made you faster, smarter, stronger. Well, we finally have it. We're proud to sell you Snake Oil. Our newest offering from the Rootless Robes. This roast is literally perfect. All we ask in return is a vote and your eternal compliance by purchasing this. You've legally gotten it. We've legally gotten it already. So there you have it. Well done. So note to rootless, excellent marketing. I will try the coffee report back to everybody. I will also say that if they want to continue in this sort of rogues gallery they might want to dust off their 1984 off their shelf. And you know, I think that I'll just read a quick quote from that. To maybe inspire the folks at Rootless. So this is George Orwell's 1984. I am familiar, a fan. The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. This is another dramatic reading, by the way. It was their final, most essential command. And if all others accepted the lie, which the party imposed, if all records told the same lie, same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. George Orwell, 1984, folks. Maybe the next bag of rootless gets inspired by this.

Kurt Neiswender: 10:53

I like that idea. If I see see the guy, Sean or John I'll let him know.

Jamie: 10:57

Yeah. Have you been

Kurt Neiswender: 10:59

seeing their Instagram little commercials? Oh yeah.

Jamie: 11:01

They've been, they've been working hard.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:03

That's fun. We need to do a little, I want to pull a, pull a chapter out of their book and do a little coffee

Jamie: 11:09

sketch podcast commercial. I think so. I think, I think there's time for trailers and, and that's, that's where we're headed.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:18

Yeah, trailers. Trailers are fun. Trailers get people to watch.

Jamie: 11:23

Yeah, that's I think so. That's

Kurt Neiswender: 11:28

Right? Isn't that how That's the work of the street. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. Well, I'm glad you, you know, gifted yourself those, Those damn fine bags of coffee.

Jamie: 11:40

Well, because it is also the lunar new year. It is the year of the snake. So snake, snake, oil, snake. I mean, there's so many things, so many things.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:54

That's it. That's. That's very interesting that the lunar new year is the year of the snake. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. We're a political podcast, right? We don't go into that. It's,

Jamie: 12:08

it's just, it's a calendar. It's a lunar calendar. It's a lunar calendar. Like, like it's already decided what the year will be next year. So it's like, it's a lunar, it's a lunar calendar. So

Kurt Neiswender: 12:19

what will next year be? I,

Jamie: 12:22

at that point, I have to look it up. Hopefully it's better than the snake. So do you know what you what what what your year of your birth was pop quiz? The

Kurt Neiswender: 12:36

lunar yeah, you're here. Yeah. No. Well, is it? No, no, hold on. I gotta Google.

Jamie: 12:48

Okay, Google

Kurt Neiswender: 12:49

lunar while you're googling

Jamie: 12:53

I am the year of the ox.

Kurt Neiswender: 12:56

Oh, okay. You're the ox. I'm the year of the monkey. I knew that. The year of the metal monkey? Oh, that makes more sense. Heavy metal monkey.

Jamie: 13:07

You're like, oh my gosh, there is more to this story.

Kurt Neiswender: 13:13

So yeah. That's, I knew that. I, I, I somehow was, I'd forgotten. You caught me off guard there. So, do you want to jump into some sketches? Yes. Bypass the any, any further news reports? I think,

Jamie: 13:30

I think no more news. We've already talked about how there is a lunar calendar. And that we're, we're both, we're January just going to keep on going. But we've, we've got stuff to share folks. Kurt's got, you know, images queued up. You know, where he's curdling the images and making sure all the stuff is feels right to him. The rest of us, you know, we're not as worried about that. Maybe

Kurt Neiswender: 13:59

a messy desk. I like the whites. I got to work. It's a

Jamie: 14:02

balance. It's balancing, right? It's all about, I gotta

Kurt Neiswender: 14:05

hide this hide this on the bottom there. So, you know, Jamie and I did a little brainstorming for fun. I hope he finds, you know, we, we've, we've talked a lot about, well, not a lot, but. more frequently about AI, image generators, things like that in the recent weeks slash months slash some episodes. And we actually did a little experiment, I suppose. I don't know what, what you would call it, but so we pulled in a sketch from Jamie and then we'll get to some of the descriptors and the prompts and all that fun stuff in the second. But so we, we quickly iterated three or four we. Different, different images out of Jamie's sketch. And we, we only, well, we culled it down to three. And

Jamie: 14:57

and we're going to, and we're going to walk you through sort of the prompts and sort of the funny observations, you know, with this whole kind of the whole process thing. But I think let's, before we jump into them, let's talk a little bit about just the sketch, just, I'll, I'll just say for those who are listening, it's things that are sort of been on my mind again, you know, that's the whole point of, Of the work that we do on the podcast is you know, describing our own daily lives and sort of, you know, not necessarily current events all the time, but it's, it's influences on our work. In this particular case, in my sketchbook I have not been drawing a ton of late but I have had a few different things on my mind. And, and one of which is sort of the, the genre of architecture as protest. And so one of the things that I've been retreating back to in, in previous sketchbooks is the work of Leibius Woods. And You know, I've found some interesting things and I think that's going to probably come out in some sketches here in the next few days, but this particular sketch is one that is one that I had done before and based on Kurt and I sort of brainstorming some of these ideas thought this was a great jumping off point and it's a pen and ink sketch, small sketchbook. You can see it in scale there to the coffee cup. This is, this is my preferred sketchbooks size. It's the, the ultimate nimble and hidden book allows me the kind of the ability to do what I like to do, but you get a, a Leibius Walker and kind of resilient response to, you know, this, I think was part of his Sarajevo project. But then kind of flipping it into the figure field. Of my own work where I'm trying to kind of analyze it both in plan and section and, and maybe even sort of mapping, mapping these in space. So, kind of a little bit of levious influence and then into my own things. And then that sort of led into this sort of idea of working with an AI prompt. Using the sketch as the initial prompt. So the sketch is there plus some, some typed words that Kurt and I kind of worked through as kind of wordsmithing and sort of figuring out how to, how to do this in a, a relatively quick generation.

Kurt Neiswender: 17:25

You know, you know, what's interesting. It, I mean, first, first critique that I can think of is how, well, we didn't necessarily describe that. It was sort of two drawings. That are related, you know, the fact that, you know, you, you have multiple sketches on across the two pages and then, and then we prompted it with, you know, some other concepts and then it sort of turned the whole thing into a composition, a singular competition versus, you know, sort of an analytical diagram on on the left and then the more perspectival sketch on the right. So I think that's kind of interesting. You know, as lately, you know, you and I, and you know, we sort of have these conversations about hand eye, you know, brain connections and, and, and, and how you're thinking through the hand, right, in generating ideas, which we try and teach students and, and, you know, move through ideas and things like that. But then yeah, in our, in our case here, we, we, we've, you know. We bypassed that and I guess went to some other stylistic prompts into, into the sketch, which they were more like singular words that we're trying to. Encourage the, the, the AI, generate the, the visual or the generative AI visualization to, I guess, produce in, in this output.

Jamie: 19:02

One observation I have just sort of with this first image, sort of, this is the first one we're looking at. We've got, we've got several to talk about, but yeah, I'm glad you mentioned sort of it blending. It didn't kind of recognize that these were different views of the same subject in a sense, and sort of one more analytical and one more perspectival. It sort of tried to merge the two things together as, as sort of one larger image. But then at the same time at the bottom, it sort of recognizes that there's a diagram. I kind of imagine in the, in. That, that bottom left quadrant, they're still trying, AI is still trying to recognize that this is, this is sort of more diagrammatic of sorts. So that's kind of interesting. The other aspect is that it literally started to recognize the three dimensionality of the perspective.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:54

Mm hmm.

Jamie: 19:54

And starts to pull that object towards the viewer and registers a shadow that's not even there. Mm hmm. In the, in the original sketch, it's taking cues from the line work, the hatching of where the light sources which is kind of amazing actually. So there's some objects at kind of the back and of the, the perspective sketch that suggest that some of the, the walking apparatus has a light source behind it and above it. And. There is sort of a, a three dimensionality to the overall form, kind of a smoothness of sort of different shells of the object. It really sort of registered those crosshatch lines and has given it a much stronger shadow condition, which I think is really kind of fascinating.

Kurt Neiswender: 20:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah, I didn't quite. Well, I guess I got distracted by that. It put, put it out in color. Well,

Jamie: 21:01

that's who, right?

Kurt Neiswender: 21:02

Yeah. We didn't say anything about color per se. And you know, your sketches are primarily in black and white or you know, monochromatic. Let's say that occasionally, you know, you dabble in color. So I guess, you know, one thing we didn't really, we, when we generated it, we didn't talk about it too much. And we have a couple more examples that hold. different colors that came about without asking for different colors. But when it came out in color, did you did it change your, you know, your own internal perception of, of what you drew in the first place?

Jamie: 21:42

It's a little bit it's, it's kind of I, I, I think the reason why, you know, as we were sort of curating some of the, the, the quick iterations, I think why I was drawn to this one is I like the color palette. I, I, I like where it sort of found itself in terms of kind of a rich blue, a rich red, and then some sort of muted greens and grays. I think really kind of work the blue and the red sort of act as sort of accents and everything else sort of works as sort of a larger kind of volumetric you know, the, the second one that you pulled up now is where, you know, from the toggles, we kind of started to manipulate how much fidelity there was to the actual original sketch.

Kurt Neiswender: 22:30

Yeah.

Jamie: 22:30

So the second one changes that fidelity. You know, by a fairly significant percentage, and as Kurt was saying, colors change you know, I, I think that there's, but I, but at the same time, I think there's some interesting interpretation that's kind of, you know, coming out of this as well. Same thing, it, it knows where the light source is you know, from the sketch, which I think is kind of fascinating. It picks up clouds, which weren't in the, there's always, you know, From those who know my drawings I always try and work a, a sky of some sort into the sketch. This one is, is pretty subtle, admittedly. So in the first AI generated image. It really kind of ignores the sky altogether. Yeah. There's a

Kurt Neiswender: 23:18

tiny,

Jamie: 23:19

there's a tiny bit. Yeah. But, but the second one again, less fidelity to the drawing, but, but knows that there's a sky and some clouds back there, it really gets interpretive with it, which I thought was kind of cool.

Kurt Neiswender: 23:32

Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. The the, the level of abstraction in the building, but the, the somewhat Well, I guess they're a little cartoony, but you know how the clouds are kind of roundish, puffy, cotton, cotton balls in the sky. And then, you know, I did drop down the the, the prompt because we did throw in the, the manga style, manga as a style you know, the, the sort of art comic, comic book style, right? And and perhaps that's. That's a trait maybe of the manga. I don't know. I'm not too familiar. I know a little bit, but I wouldn't necessarily be able to pick out. I don't know if you do, you know what you could pick out from the image results that are speaking to the manga nature. I suppose it's the bold, punchy colors, the high contrast.

Jamie: 24:28

Yeah. And I think, I think also just sort of the little bit of shine,

Kurt Neiswender: 24:32

there's a little

Jamie: 24:32

shine and metal. And you know, but I mean, I mean, manga as sort of a, as an art form, I think is, you know, you know, not to oversimplify it. I think it's, it's very vast. I think that that's the whole thing. I think it, it's a very vast kind of you know, storytelling and art and sort of sequential art. You know, I have a, a penchant for that. And, you know, definitely has influenced, you know, the way that I taught myself how to draw. The, you know, my excitement about reading certainly started with comic books. And, you know, But I think that the, the worldview that sort of presented has a bit of an animation kind of quality to it. And so in this particular iteration, I think it has that kind of animation type quality Again, no color prompts, no words about color or environment and interesting how it, you know, pulled that out and sort of created this world, a very blue sky with white puffy clouds, and sort of the same kind of Walker object. You know, the stilts are sort of, you know, Treated in a, in a very, very different way, kind of a, you know, Curt and I threw in the word Kintsugi in here. So, you know, it, it has, maybe that's why the gold color

Kurt Neiswender: 25:48

kind of,

Jamie: 25:49

you know, presents itself, but but I, but I like it again you know, two very, very different images and kind of neat kind of thought experiments. You know, from, from, from a sketch that, that, that I had done.

Kurt Neiswender: 26:03

Well, and I said you know, for, for those that are familiar with the architect, Wes Jones, who was a LA based architect taught at SyArk, taught around town he was kind of a, kind of a rogue guy when he, a young upstart, you know, when, when I was in school. And so we all kind of thought he was a cool guy. And anyway, that's unrelated to the, the architecture. Well, maybe it is, but it's his own personal style. So any who it has to reminiscent of is more of like how he drew, how he generated his drawings. Very much always lots of, lots of perspectival drawings and then these sort of like swatches of color, especially the sort of rusty colors like this yellow, yellow, orange color that's in here, you know, so it's kind of reminded me of West Jones was kind of a fun throwback to my old L. A. Days. You know, and so that was the that was my initial reaction. But also the kind of the sort of fun floating well, it's not really floating, but this sort of like boxcar sitting on top of stilts and so on was kind of the image. And so what it's, what it's also done, which is going to be kind of the segue to the, to the fourth, third drawing here is that it's maintained and we've kind of played around with the fidelity as Jamie called it, you know, but it's maintained the, the, the, the peripheral images, which are the coffee cup and the pens that Jamie had on display. Right. So if we go back to the beginning, we have the coffee mug at the top and. Count them. One, two, two pens, one pencil. Right, Jamie? Then we go to our third image. Right, and you have, it's kind of interesting. Stylized. Maybe that's where some of the manga is coming in. Well, it kind of turns into this sort of window, right? It looks like a window into an

Jamie: 28:19

iPad. It's a, it's a digital screen. It's a digital sketchbook. Both, both of both of the AI prompts, the resulting it's, it keeps the coffee cup, understands what a coffee cup is. It keeps, it keeps the writing implements, the drawing implements still there. But it, it slowly is evolving this sort of digital tablet, which is kind of, kind of funny because when we get to the next one, let's get to the next one.

Kurt Neiswender: 28:49

Well, the proportion, you know, of your folded out sketchbook with the rounded corners looks like an iPad. It does. It does. It, which is interesting, but yeah, so here's the final show, but the difference here, we have to point out. Is what we did is, you know, in this software, you can actually pull out the description. So it'll, you can give it a prompt, but then you can also extract what it thinks it's looking at from the original image. And so the, the result was if I pull this, it says an open sketchbook, although it calls it a sketchbook, not an iPad with abstract architectural drawing, surrounded by pens and a coffee cup. Right. And so here's, so instead of. Using the prompt, we use the description to generate another image. And so it's, it's, it's, and we might've played around too, with the, the level of, well, it's a 50%, a 50, 50. level of fidelity. But yeah, the fun part, I don't know. Do you want to give it away? Do you want me to give it away? Well,

Jamie: 29:57

I'm gonna let you do do the fun, fun part. But I'll just say is as Kurt was describing this it does keep the coffee cup. It does remember that this is a sketchbook which is which is kind of cool. So we're, we've gotten away from the, the sort of the digital, you know, you know, iPad evolution. So it understands that it's a sketchbook that it's open to, you know, open to view, you know, from above what, and you're looking down into the coffee cup and then the drawing implements is, is really where I'd like Kurt to pick up the story.

Kurt Neiswender: 30:30

So we were kind of like trying to analyze what we got back as a result. And then And then it, the, it immediately caught our eye is that we, we started, we started counting how many pens and pencils that the sketch, we didn't ask for any more drawing implements, but we started with three at the bottom of the, the image. And if you count, I, I, by my count, and I count all silhouettes that look like an implement where you'll see, if you look at this image for those that are watching. Right. Some of them are blurred together, you know, so you could say that maybe it's one, but it's really two different types of an object that is a pen or a pencil. So I'm counting. Although now I'm second guessing that one, but you know, we got one, two, three behind the sketchbook on the right hand side. We have one giant pencil. I was going to say that there's something behind it, but now I'm thinking it's woodgrain for the desk.

Jamie: 31:41

I think that's the wood grain on that, on the right side, yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 31:44

On the, on top of the drawing, we have one, two, three, and it, you know, it's kind of funny, this is looking like a reflection in the paper of this pen.

Jamie: 31:55

Well, I don't know if it, is it a, is it a, is it an eraser? Well, then there's an eraser.

Kurt Neiswender: 32:02

Oh, that looks like a broken piece of charcoal and that looks like a stump eraser. Okay. Okay. Oh, like one of those needed erasers. Needed erasers. Yeah.

Jamie: 32:10

Yeah. Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 32:11

And then at the bottom, we got one, two, three, four, five, six, maybe seven profiles. So, you know. It's just a lot. So it's a lot of pens. Jamie doesn't necessarily walk around with them any. No. Implements. But you know, it would be fun. Even if I'm staging a, yeah. I'm staging

Jamie: 32:36

a photo. I wouldn't have this many pets. Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 32:40

It's a little zealous. It's a little bit like over the top, but I wonder if, if we keep feeding it, your sketches. You know, I don't know how, I don't, not necessarily a hundred percent sure on how they work, but if they start to understand there's pattern recognition based on your sketches and will it, are you trying to create fine,

Jamie: 33:03

like an, like a Jamie's sketch, alter ego,

Kurt Neiswender: 33:07

a little, a bot, Jamie, bot?

Jamie: 33:11

I don't know. I dunno how I feel about this experiment.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:14

No, no, no. I'm not necessarily, no more like. Will it start to adapt and go, Oh, he only has two pens today instead of I think 11 is what we can.

Jamie: 33:26

Is it going to be judgy about my pens? Is it going to say, you know, that's a really inexpensive pen.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:33

It's going to put a ballpoint on there.

Jamie: 33:35

Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:36

Oh yeah. So anyway, it's kind of fun. It was a fun little experiment to kind of Move through the iterations.'cause these generate really quick. It's kind of fun.

Jamie: 33:48

Well, and, and I'll just say or keeps

Kurt Neiswender: 33:50

the energy going,

Jamie: 33:52

I would say. And, and I appreciate you, you coming up with this idea for this episode, because I think it does start to get at that conversation that we've been wanting to have about, you know, dialoguing over this sort of iterative process and, you know, kind of using tools and techniques and different technologies to do it. This was, you know, our first live foray into, you know, kind of talking it through. You know, both of us worked up the prompts and sort of, you know, made some judgment calls about things that we were seeing and then, of course, had some fun kind of analyzing you know, the funny outputs that sometimes you get from all this stuff. But I think it's. It's definitely something we will continue to experiment with for sure. And, and as we're talking here, folks, Curtis is, you know, he's addicted. I think there's an addiction. We might have to have it. There might be an intervention involved. He's doing sepia tones on things and basswood models of the sketches. And what's crazy. Whoa, that's like, I, you know,

Kurt Neiswender: 34:59

well, well, so what I did is I When you were introducing the original sketch, you had other terms that you were using that we didn't use in the prompt, like architecture of protest in the style of Lebbeus Woods. And I, so I typed that down real quick and to save it in the memory bank and and then use that against the original sketch. And, and so, so the first one is a hundred percent fidelity to your sketch. And the second one is 50. And that one is, is, is the, I guess they, they got more sparing with the implements. They have a pencil and a, maybe it's an eraser pen. I don't know.

Jamie: 35:43

I don't know. It's like, it's only two. Yeah. I'm not sure what the thing on the right is, but the other one, maybe it's

Kurt Neiswender: 35:48

listening

Jamie: 35:49

like a golf pencil. I mean, it's like, which I have drawn with folks. But yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 35:54

Yeah. Use the tool at hand, but anyway, sorry to just distract you. But yeah, so I figured I'd. Just I wanted to do that before we stopped talking about, you know, this stuff with those kind of

Jamie: 36:05

gifts. We're just giving each other gifts. This is, this is, this is that time of year. It's the ever present January with a little bit of holiday thrown in for, for fun.

Kurt Neiswender: 36:16

Well, what I want to do too, though, is something that we've, you've, you've done on your own. Well, we've done a little bit together, which is basically share drawings. Yes. And, and so. It would be fun to have you take any one of these, you know, whichever you feel, you know, sort of is sort of scratching the itch, I suppose, and then draw either, you know, draw a new sketch or draw on top of, you know, in your own techniques that you've done. You know, and then collage and comp, compose, you know, on top of things. That could be interesting because there's some, there's elements, right? I think, I think the way I think most people, well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't assume, but I think a lot of people are starting to realize that it's not about the full image, but about elements that can inspire another idea. And, and that you can pull from and then make your own iteration and then sort of evolve from there. Right. Cause there's to this, like there's some interesting sort of window openings in this wood wall. And then this sort of, sort of very abstract rickety bridge platform. Well,

Jamie: 37:40

and it's, it's sort of an interpreted, the environment that's in the sketch in a very you know, this is a wholesale change. Yeah. So it's it's

Kurt Neiswender: 37:50

people,

Jamie: 37:51

yeah, there's, and there's tons of people. Like it's, it's, it's determined at scale from the drawing that may or may not have been fully present. And there are some suggestive lines you know, not necessarily regulating lines like their core construction lines, but they're suggestive of forms that may be in the distance, sort of a interpolation of the Of the environment that it's in, I think it's interesting in, in this, it's sort of, it's leaned fully into that. It's created this, this is now grounded in the side of a hill, there's trees, there's sort of a mist about it it really is sort of creating a full on atmosphere for the space isn't necessarily present in the original sketch, but like Kurt saying, I think it, it, it gives you a different jumping off point. You know, for thought related to the original idea,

Kurt Neiswender: 38:48

the scale of the people dramatically changed the perception of the, the size of the, the building. I didn't really imagine it to be so big, you know, more of a folly, but the trees, it's like it put actual trees. Yeah, it's, it's cool. Then. So now, Ooh, that's interesting. So I got to stop this rabbit hole. I know Jamie's like tapping the clock. This is the last one is just 25 percent fidelity. So it's huge departure, but I do kind of like the starkness of it, the very minimal minimalistic, but anyway, sorry, Jamie, that was, we should probably put that a pin in that before, before we follow the rabbit down the hole too far. This is really interesting though. That last, that last one was pretty cool.

Jamie: 39:51

It's fine.

Kurt Neiswender: 39:52

I hope, I hope, yeah, I hope you did. You did enjoy it. And then if you do want it, you know, let me know. I can download the images and share them with you and then you know, see what your next take on it could be, you know, in the hand sketch, but.

Jamie: 40:08

Absolutely.

Kurt Neiswender: 40:11

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna promise that we won't do this again.

Jamie: 40:15

No, this is like, you know, folks, we just used to have just lightning rounds. We are so far past lightning with this. Yeah, that's true.

Kurt Neiswender: 40:23

This is its own version. This is

Jamie: 40:26

2025. I think this is the future.

Kurt Neiswender: 40:28

But it's still January.

Jamie: 40:30

Yeah, it's still January.

Kurt Neiswender: 40:32

Just kidding. All right. Thanks, buddy.

Jamie: 40:37

Thanks.