Kurt Neiswender: 0:32

Hey Jamie, how's it going?

Jamie: 0:34

Good, how are you?

Kurt Neiswender: 0:36

I'm great, but I first, the first thing is first, we have to introduce our guest, because we have a guest. Well, first things first,

Jamie: 0:46

I just want to make sure that everyone knows this is episode 161.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:51

First, before, so the first thing before the first thing?

Jamie: 0:55

First thing before the first thing, because everybody who just has been listening to the podcast has realized, They just dropped like 159 and 160, like, and time just really shortened on us all. And it's almost like they've got some crazy momentum. And now we've got a guest on 161. Boom. Time for the guest.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:17

Oh, our, our guest is Eric Whitman. I wish I had more sound effects. Oh, no, you're good.

Jamie: 1:25

This is the restream. This is the button we're looking for folks. This is the, we need the cannons. Yes.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:31

There's probably all kinds of licensing agreements they'd have for that, but we, we do have, we have Eric Whitman AI architect. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yes. Thank you. And I will, let me do the, the, the formal, the formal bio nice and tidy. So our, our audience has a clear picture of who we got with us. So bear with me folks, Eric Whitman AI, nearly 20 years of experience working on an array of projects from single family homes, small retail projects. Entire schools and hospitals in Kansas, California and Maine after graduating from Kansas state. In 2006, he worked as a volunteer in New Orleans, rebuilding the 9th ward after a hurricane Katrina cornerstone, a project being the rebuilding of the house of dance and feathers, a museum dedicated to the culture of the Mardi Gras Indians throughout his career. He has been dedicated member of the design community and while working. In Wichita, Kansas, he served as editor of a R34, a statewide architecture magazine and was the AI Wichita president and now moving to Maine. He's spent 6 years on the. Archie talks board, a group with a mission to bring architects and designers to Portland, Maine to speak to the community and avid sketcher. Eric participates and leads exercises to promote hand sketching throughout the year. And he appreciates. His current role at Knickerbocker Group allows him to partner with clients throughout the entire design process from initial sketches to finalized construction documents. How'd I do guys?

Jamie: 3:17

Excellent. One thing to add, one thing to add and the founder, founder and creator in key to Arc Inktober. It's October 1st folks. And so we've got this, we we've got, we've got the guy. It's

Eric: 3:34

in case you were wondering

Kurt Neiswender: 3:35

that we're right on time, which is why all the episodes were edited and completed and on time. Thanks. Very impressive. But thanks, Eric. Well, I guess the first thing we like to do, even though we do have, I have some questions. Your travel, like your life path, because I have a similar, so similarities from East coast, West coast, and now I'm in the middle of the country. But before, before that, you know, we like to talk about coffee. Yes. Cause all our audience always wants to know what's in our, our cup. So Jamie, why don't you go first? Oh

Jamie: 4:13

no, no. I'm going to let the guests go first.

Kurt Neiswender: 4:15

Oh yeah. How rude. Oh yeah. And if you're not a coffee drinker, it's okay. We've had people like that before.

Jamie: 4:25

No, I had one and we still, we still sent her coffee because her significant other likes the coffee. So, yeah,

Eric: 4:34

yeah. I love coffee. This is one of my favorite parts of your podcast. And I, I enjoyed dark, dark coffee. No sugar, no milk, nothing. Um, normally most offices I've worked at, we have a, a roastery called Coffee by Design. And they have a dark blend called Aranzo's Double Dark. And that's what I enjoy. You can find it pretty easily up here. Not drinking coffee right now, but I, I do enjoy coffee. Black, dark, almost like you have to chew it. Coffee. Yes. Yeah. And that, that's, that's from, you know, years of studio and, and the, the drinking black coffee just came because I wanted things to be quick, you know, and I'd order it or get it, it was just easier just to get black coffee,

Jamie: 5:27

black coffee, moonless night, channel your inner twin peaks. It's all good.

Kurt Neiswender: 5:33

Yes. I would, I would concur with that, though, just to I'll go next. Cause now I'm on coffee, but I think in architecture school. Yeah, it was it always stayed warmer to if you can't reflect because if you start adding creamer and milk and things like it starts cooling off. And I don't like, I don't like cold, lukewarm coffee. So you're not a cold brew guy. Not really. I've had some.

Jamie: 6:00

Yeah. I'm not either. I mean, I, I, I feel like as much coffee as I consume, I probably should living in the state that I live in to like find a way to get okay. With cold brew. There is one spot that I will, I will drink their cold brew. Cause it's like, it's like extra dark, extra rich, rich. Like it feels like a coffee, but it's got ice cubes and it's cold. And that's Joe's on South. I think

Kurt Neiswender: 6:27

that's what constitutes cold brew. Yeah,

Jamie: 6:29

I know, I know it's still kind of like, it's when it's

Eric: 6:34

got the ice cubes and it's cold, that's a good cold brew. I

Kurt Neiswender: 6:39

guess I follow. I follow. I follow. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. That's, I think one of the downfalls is that if it's not, if it's not rich enough, it's going to taste really watery. Yeah. And so anyway, for me should I. Should I divulge the secret that I'm, I'm not actually drinking coffee? Are you

Jamie: 6:58

drinking the stash? Is that what?

Kurt Neiswender: 7:01

No.

Jamie: 7:01

Okay. No,

Kurt Neiswender: 7:03

I have, excuse me, pardon, because it is an evening recording. So yeah, I guess I'm not actually drinking coffee. I've got a mug though. I'm going to, I think I'm going to edit that out because I think I want to keep the secret alive. But anyway, I when I, right now I am brewing

Jamie: 7:21

secret to, to Eric on this part is that Kurt has to remember that he just told himself that he wants to edit in a future. Yeah, edited in the future. Cause

Kurt Neiswender: 7:33

it might appear in the transcript. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. Okay. I do my, I try my hardest, but sometimes. Yeah. And we're back. And so I have I still have some of that The, I guess for a lack of a better term, like a mom and pop grocer in town and they have bulk, like a bulk set of coffee levers that you can pull. And I grabbed, I think it's a, a dark roast. I don't remember the name. It's not, you know, it's on the bag. Apologies, everyone. I mentioned this last week. I didn't get the bag. Memorize the name, but it's, it's it's pretty good. It's almost gone. So either going back to rootless or drinking all of the coffee sketch coffee. Before Jamie can have any.

Jamie: 8:26

Okay. So for those who've had the rest of it, yeah, I know, I know. So I brought props, little city, very kind of clever label. I still like that. I like their, I like the, the, their work in their, their work and their design magic there. So this is the L Virgil. It's Columbia, it's a Colombian coffee. They, they do a lot of good, really sourcing. And they work with a lot of local not local, but sort of purveyors and, and cultivators of coffee from different regions and very, very specific, they also, what's nice is they also tell the story of, of where this coffee is coming from and who's growing it. But it's I, some of the little city stuff of late has been like, I've been really hit and miss, I have to say but I've also been really kind of enjoying it, you know, in, in trying a couple of different ones. This one I do like though and so it's got a guava strawberry and sort of chocolate kind of taste to it. Um, the strawberry part kind of drew me in, I will admit. The guava, I wasn't sure what to expect. But yeah, no, it's, it's a good, it's a good kind of a medium dark roast. And it's one that as, as I've said on the podcast before, like. I will drink multiple glasses in a day when I'm kind of going. And so when I'm grinding this up and sort of making, you know, as, as Kurt explained to me what Mr. Coffee is like, like a pot of coffee. Yeah. So this is, this is when I can drink multiple ones and, but it's good. I enjoyed it.

Kurt Neiswender: 9:59

Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes I've had some coffees where it's just, Oh, I can only have one of those every so often. But. Like

Jamie: 10:08

when we, like when we did the blue bottle, like I liked it, but I wasn't going to have like two or three.

Kurt Neiswender: 10:16

I thought, well, yeah, I thought it was good. We digress. So should I, let me ask a couple of questions because. Yeah because then we want to get to some sketches and talk about our King Tober. Yeah But based on based on your bio, I think you're you're approximately around. It's not that we have to age Yes here, but you're seems like we're around the same Lifespan and so you yeah, Kansas, California in Maine So the, I'm really intrigued by the, the Katrina work. I mean, you did as a volunteer, so I don't know how you did that without any money. But that was a lot of work. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that? And then, and then we'll and then, and then I guess kind of get us to take us to Maine because yeah, I grew up in Connecticut. Oh, okay, I've only been to I don't actually know if I've ever been to Maine. I've been to Vermont, but, you know, it's because it's way. I've been

Jamie: 11:27

to Vermont, too.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:32

Well,

Eric: 11:32

no, the, the candidate doesn't care.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:36

Sorry. Sorry, Eric. Sorry. Go

Eric: 11:38

ahead. The Katrina stuff. I graduated college in 2006 and Katrina happened in 2005. And the professor that I had in my fifth year of studio was big on citizen architecture, guerrilla architecture, and he was new that year. So along with teaching us class, he also had kind of a side project that, with friends that he'd had over the years, of going down to help those in need. That were affected by Katrina. And so during the court, after the hurricane hit, he got in touch with some people down there and he found a gentleman named Ronald Lewis, who lived in the ninth ward. And he had built kind of a backyard garage called the House of Dance and Feathers. And it was just a collection, you know, he was kind of an elder guy in his neighborhood and over the years had collected all this stuff. From the Mardi Gras Indians and basically people would, you know, and it's I'm not from the South. So all this was learned, but, you know, social clubs and helping people, you know, in neighborhoods, he was kind of the head of the social club. So not only was it a museum, but it was kind of a. Spot in the neighborhood for people to get help before the stone like

Jamie: 13:04

a

Eric: 13:04

touchstone for for everybody. Yeah.

Jamie: 13:06

Mm

Eric: 13:06

hmm. And that was before the storm. So we kind of realized if we could help him rebuild his museum that might help the rest of the community. So we went down at spring break and gutted the museum and demolished it and it was then that we saw his house and realized that, you know, Rebuilding his museum wouldn't help much if he didn't have a place to live either. So we took on the house as well. So we gutted the house so that was March. And then, yeah, after we graduated, so I graduated, I had my studio project. Graduated had a job lined up, but I said, I wanted to do this. So it was about a month down the road. So for a few weeks in the summertime, I went down to her kink to the 9th ward and slept on floors and got up and we didn't have a. We had solar powered tools, like we, we had a, like a solar panel that charged the generator that powered our tools during the day because there was no power in the 9th Ward and and just kind of rebuilt his house and rebuilt the museum and I only stayed for a month. Some people stayed down there the whole summer,

Kurt Neiswender: 14:19

but it was really,

Eric: 14:20

I mean, it was one of the more eye opening experiences for me. Experiences I've ever had.

Kurt Neiswender: 14:26

Yeah, we were Jamie and I were in, in new Orleans when our committee work for AI the young architects forum was at 2014, 13, 14, something, somewhere around there. And we took a, we, we all grabbed a bunch of bicycles. There was like a bike, bike shop that rented, rented them. And then we all, like a whole bunch of us just. Rode our bikes to the lower 9th ward and you know, from, I mean, we were basically downtown, right, Jamie. And so we wrote our bikes and so the difference between downtown and then, as you approach the lower 9th ward, I mean, you could see the, you know, the shift. Right in, in, you know. Demographic data, it's like, you know, those, those sorts of data points and things like that. It was great to perceive it. You know, at that time it was they had rebuilt some of those you know, those Brad Pitt houses. Oh, yeah, stuff like that. So, so I've always, it was sort of intrigued by that, that process. So it was interesting to see them in person, but, yeah. Our, our hats off to you for taking that time and doing that. I think again, one more thing is the that citizen architect mindset is something I appreciate and like to try and get involved as well. And I think it stems from early days in school or, you know, right around school and learning about the rural studio in Auburn, right. What Sam Lockby did. And I think that kind of. Energized a lot of us in, in that in our, in our sort of cohort to, to try and get involved. So, and

Jamie: 16:16

I know, I mean, you know, in full disclosure to like, you know, Kurt is now teaching co teaching with a gentleman who, you know, was part of the, you know, kind of that Auburn contingent. And so he's had that, that had that influence of late, but I, I totally agree with him is that I think that there's something about a generation of architects of which I think the three of us are in that, that sort of, it's, I don't think we were even talking about it as public interest design. Or, or community led design or community engagement. Those weren't even terms that I mean, for the folks today, those are like very common vocabulary. I mean, and back then it was just like, this is kind of the right thing to be focusing on. Like, how can we take our skills to this place or to these places and sort of think about it? You know, I think of people like Cameron Sinclair, you know, and architecture for humanity and. You know, the, that, that kind of an influence of someone who is a contemporary to us, who, you know, effectively, you know, is working in New York City doing a bunch of stuff and decides, you know, I'm going to try and create this nonprofit when no one else is sort of thinking about this you know, for, you know, bringing these skills to bear. And so the fact that you went and did what you did. You know, even, I mean, and this is the whole thing, short time, long time, doesn't matter to me. I mean, it's, it's, it's all about sort of the, the experience of having done it. And, and I mean, the, the fact that, you know, even today, you know, we're, you're 15 years removed from that, you know, and it's still tangible. And probably something that you can kind of, you know, close your eyes and kind of still picture. Yeah. I mean, what in terms I'm just sort of always in those types of situations, especially with that, because that was such a devastating event for that community. And so many folks from their immigrated. You know, you know, to, to Texas and to Austin, You know, during that time period, I was living in Austin. I was recently had recently had moved to Austin at that myself, but you know, what was sort of his kind of like, can you give kind of any kind of explanation or anecdote related to kind of his experience with y'all or like something, you know, his impression that, you know, maybe imparted to you. Cause I think that's sort of always, you know, of interest for me.

Eric: 18:45

No well, to piggyback on what you said, I agree with you exactly. I there's our generation and the timing of it. Like when I was in college and you learn all these skills of how to do architecture, how to put a building together and then something like this happens and you learn about Sam Mockabee and then like. It was a really poignant part of my life saying, what am I going to do with this, these skills? And I could go and work and, but this came along and I said, no, I'm going to go do this. As far as Ronald's point of view, he was, he was so thankful. I mean, he was, uh, incredibly thankful for us. It was it took me, I mean, I'm from Kansas. I'm from the Midwest. So when I went down there and he would sit on the front porch. And talk with people on the street and I'm from suburbia. So we would grill and have backyard, backyard barbecues with in our fences. So this whole idea of him on the front porch and like, we rebuilt his front porch and he, he was saying, oh, these guys are helping me out, you know, and like, oh, you know, and because he kind of vouched for us. We were suddenly fine in the neighborhood, you know, everybody was our friend because we were with Ronald Lewis and it was just really that culture, that front porch culture. He was also big on nicknames. And so like he gave all of us nicknames. My, my friend, Aaron was fish, you know, I was big man. And and it wasn't just us. It was people on the street too had nicknames. But it was just really, he was very, very appreciative. And he was. I mean, he do much labor just because he was 65 and, but he was there every, anytime we were there working, he was outside with, I love

Jamie: 20:30

it. I love it. I mean, and that's the thing is, is folks like that, you know, when they sort of see you, you know, and your cohort of friends, you know, doing this, you know, you're their architect, you know, they, they've never met an architect before, you know, they suddenly realize what one's going to, what one is. And you're, and you're explaining that to them in real time and then, and then, like you say, I think that that's the thing as a designer, like the designer mind in my, me comes to play where what you just described in just very, very simple phrase, he sits on his front porch and engages his community. You know, and and that move is one where it's like, wow, you know, I didn't think of it that way before I met him and now after meeting him, I realize I need to think about which communities I'm in when I'm doing my work because that may be is the way to really approach. You know, a particular client or a community or something like that. You know, and, and I appreciate you saying that because it's something that I needed to hear because I have a project right now in, you know, in a part of Houston that's, that's gentrifying where I've been asked to provide some commentary to a project and my first reaction when I'm looking at the site plan is why does it have a backyard? Like, like, like why is like, why is all the social and community connection focused on the back of this building? And, and it just, it. You know, hearing you describe what you just did is like, has given me purpose to, like, I know exactly how I want to deliver this, you know, come tomorrow. Cause my instinct was like, I don't understand why this plan is organized the way it is. And it was, it was bugging the crap out of me. And, and to hear that. You know, is that solves it because it's true. It's, you know, you, you have to have these conversations and listen to folks and meet them where they are and, and, and see the value in all that, you know, different points of view. I mean, it was,

Kurt Neiswender: 22:37

oh, sorry, I just wanted to throw in it's because I find it the architectural element of the porch seem like the, the most or a very impactful functional space. And right now, with the studio that I'm working in, the students are. You know, they, they, they visit the site once and, and so they, but they have to do a lot of site analysis and train like excavate or unearth like aspects of the site that they're not very familiar with. And they, you know, they kind of default to Google mapping and street views and things like that. But I think it's the, the use of the space and, and the. That sort of conversation about and and I'm not knocking my students because I know a lot of them are listening now. But so careful what you hopefully they hopefully they can gain, you know, from from your perspective, a little sense of, you know, the subtlety of what I'm trying to get at is that, you know, A porch can be a very subtle object related to a building and then related and oriented to the front yard, right? A backyard. And that was Jamie was as Jamie added on to is that that really changes the. The whole dynamic of, of community really. So,

Eric: 24:12

yeah, and I mean, the porch that he sat on was five by five. I mean, it was, it was just enough for the door to open and he had a bench on one side of it. And that, that was it, but it was right on the sidewalk and it was, he, you know, he'd be out there all the time and people would shout at him. And, and that was, we, we discovered that as we were cleaning up the site, as we were doing demo and, and yeah, it was, it was very, very, very eye opening. Right.

Jamie: 24:43

So, yeah. So, I mean, I, I mean, I think as sort of an, like an initial origin to your career and, and as Kurt kind of mentioned, you know, you've kind of traveled a little bit. And, and also served in a couple of different kind of professional roles to can you speak to a little bit of that, but then also, you know, I mean, I'll just say that, you know for those who are listening you and I, I, I think of as, I think of you as a friend but, but it, you know, but, but a friend I've never met in real life. And so you know, we've, we've kind of collaborated at least sort of in dialogue, especially over these sketches, which I've loved. And so, you know, if you can kind of, you know, talk to, just to that part of the next part of your story, that would be great.

Eric: 25:29

Let me see if I can roll that into it. Had a professor in college that said sketch every day. That was. That was the rule at the end of studio. We had to have, you know, 50 sketches to turn in and, and you can't fake that, you know? Yeah. You can't, you can't decide the night before that you're gonna fake 50 sketches. It's something you had to put your no nose to and, and do all semester long. So that stuck and started sketching a lot after that class. Worked a little bit in California, lived in San Diego for a little bit, worked there, came back to Wichita and got involved, that's where I got involved in AIA and became the AIA Wichita president, and somewhere in there, I got really into sketching and sketchbooks and believe that even though I was working in an office, I still wanted to carry a sketchbook and I had the typical moleskin and I never used it. I was, I felt like I could only use that if I was at a cafe in Italy and I was sketching, you know, the Sistine Chapel or St. Paul's or whatever. Like it felt too holy to sketch in. And I was like, I'm not that good of a sketcher. I can't use my moleskin. So the office I was in bought these really crappy, like, or, you know, three, you know, really simple sketchbooks that were just like regular paper, cardboard front and back. And, and I grabbed one of those and I wasn't afraid to ruin that. So I tended to sketch in it more and it would be a crap drawing, but I didn't care because it's not in a moleskin just flip the page and there was something about that that clicked. So I, I hardly ever buy. Nice sketchbooks. I just buy, you know, the simplest thing I can. I ended up because I'm thrifty, I did have like two moleskins that I did work my way through. Because I, I couldn't stand having that, but I didn't like it as much. I really, really didn't like it as much. I like these, I like these cheapskates. Like you

Jamie: 27:31

moved a little slower through that book. Cause you're like,

Eric: 27:34

Yes. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to. Go ahead. You go. Oh, no. So I got through those and I'm back to crappy sketchbooks again. And so that led to the inktober that is everybody knows on instagram. And I did that a few years and. I was literally sitting in the office saying, oh, this is, we can gear this more towards architecture and someone was like, well, then do it. So I put together 31 words and put it out. You know, looking back on it. I wish I had a better name than Arcingtober. It's a little doesn't flow as much as I wanted to. But when you start something, you never know. So, I

Jamie: 28:17

mean, you're talking to the guy who can't pronounce crap. So like, I'm, I'm all about like, you know, trying to make sense of it. And I was like, you know I, well, Kurt, what was it like you were trying to teach me? Like, it's not like. And it's, it's, are we talking about pronunciation? Yeah, it's pronunciation, but it's like, and maybe it is our King Tober. Oh yeah. So yeah, that was it. So it's, is it arch ink Tober? And so we had this, like, this was, this was the forever argument that we've, the two of us have had. So now that we have you,

Eric: 28:56

our

Jamie: 28:56

King Tober, thank you.

Kurt Neiswender: 28:58

Yeah. I always look at it from the fact that our, In this is context is architecture. No, no arch. Like,

Jamie: 29:07

no, he said it. I heard him.

Kurt Neiswender: 29:09

You said arc. I know, but I'm just, I

Jamie: 29:13

said, I'm just,

Kurt Neiswender: 29:15

yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. We're all, I think we're all in agreement. We're all saying the same thing. There are some people that will, when they don't see the word architect or architecture. Then they turn it into art. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah, you know, anyway, we, we, we don't, we're not trying to burn bridges. We're just trying to, you know, sketch, sketch, sketch, sketch, sketch, but

Eric: 29:38

yeah. But then yes. So it was actually ended up being a weird way of like, in September, I would request 5 words and it was a great. Way to keep in touch with my friends that sketched back in Wichita. Like there's several people that I idolize in Wichita and here in Portland, Maine, there's some great sketchers and it would, I would send it out. And I think I sent Kurt like, maybe that was the first time I DM'd you. It was cause I knew you were, did this podcast. And so I, I sent you saying, Hey, I'm looking for some words. And I think you sent me some. And it was just a great way to gather, build a little bit of momentum before actually putting out the words. If you had like. Seven people that had put words in it, I think I felt like they were more likely to participate. So that's kind of how it started. No, it's great. I

Kurt Neiswender: 30:28

do remember now and you, you, you, your memories is even better than mine. Cause I, yeah.

Jamie: 30:34

Yeah. I think you actually messaged both of us cause both of us were like, well, you know, and then it was, then it was like the private debate about like, no, no, you can't have the same words that I'm having. So these are the things that we're just, we're outing ourselves on all kinds of stuff on this, this episode. But. I do want you to talk about last year's because last year, like, like, You upped your game last year on all the prompts and we're not, I mean, we're not, we will talk about this year, but like last year, like, please explain cause we tried to explain it and we might've done an okay job. The floor is yours.

Eric: 31:11

Yeah. So last year I sent out the request. People sent me like four or five words and they were good. And I used to keep a running total. Like we had never repeated a word. I didn't do that this year. I didn't go back and check. It's getting too long. But so last year I had like 15 words from other people that I really liked. So I spaced them out and I thought, well, I need to do something. I always like to do a little game. Like one year, the first three things were rock, paper, scissors. Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny, but that ended after day three. I did something else one year where I had you go to other people's Instagrams and sketch something on their page, hoping that that would like generate buzz. And, you know, I went nowhere with that. So last year I started thinking, I was like, well, I want, I want some sort of theme to tie it all together and see if anybody picks up on it. Like, can they uncover this theme? So what I did was I went to. I started at the beginning of Back to the Future, and went through the whole trilogy, and so it was 1980, 1980s, 1985 maybe, I don't think I got that specific, but it was 1980s, cafe clock tower 1950s, you know, I went through the whole movie just picking out little things here and there. And I even, if you remember, one of the prompts last year was I had you go back to the 1980s prompt and redraw it, which simulated the alternate 1985 in Back to the Future 2, where Biff's in charge and it's all chaos. So that was, I thought people would pick up on it then, but and then Ireland because Marty meets his ancestors in the third one that are from Ireland. And I think railroad, a train station and cave and went through the whole trilogy and being on the outside of that. I mean, I purposely did that to see if you guys would pick up on it. Cause I listened to your podcast and you guys were so close. Like you even mentioned DeLorean. I think, I think you meant, or do you drew DeLorean? You drew DeLorean last year and, and still like, I was like, Oh, all

Kurt Neiswender: 33:25

around it. Yeah. Yeah, we were all around it.

Eric: 33:27

It was really entertaining on my side.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:31

Well, and then for our, a, a friend of ours Ben Kaden, all, all friend of all of ours, but Mm-Hmm. you know, he's a big fan. We've had him on the podcast, talked about pop culture and art and, and, Mm-Hmm. graffiti and things like that. And hopefully he's listening and gets a kick outta that.'cause it was Yeah. Yeah. I met Ben just briefly, but I really liked him.

Jamie: 33:51

So, so that brings us to the present. Mm-Hmm. So, and. October 1st, Arcingtober, and you've got 31 prompts. Like I have to give you props because it's like, you know, just like year after year, this is the seventh year. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So for those who've listened to the podcast before, we've definitely spent a fair amount of time talking about this. Cause it's, it is the time that I try and get my momentum. And if I don't have my, my, my. My vibe or my verve or whatever, like this is, this is the time of year that I just try and like, I, I lean into it all. I, my birthday just happened, like the fall, like I feel like all the planets are aligned. I feel better about myself. So this just hits me. hits right. So I love it. I loved inktober one year. I tried to do both in a single sketch, but that was a hot mess. But yeah, so I, I, I do look over at the inktober and kind of like side eye it cause maybe I'll pick one up every once in a while. But yeah, this is where it's at folks. So and I've, and I've, and I've laid the gauntlet down. This is the one. Yeah. Like Kurt. Kurt and I are both doing this. 31 buddy.

Kurt Neiswender: 35:12

So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm all in pushing all the chips in. And as I mentioned in the, in the green room I add, of course, cause I can't make it just simple as pen and paper, but we'll see how long it goes. I'm going to try and do everything in gravity sketch, which is a VR. VR application that we're using at the university a little bit. Well, I'm using it a little bit, probably there's some other faculty that are really into it. And it's, it's kind of fun. So, you know, my, my quick tangent, you know, cause I'm, I'm gonna, I'm putting out, like I said, I'm putting out. Putting all the cards on the table here. This is, this is my day one prompt solution for small, which I love. Well, let me go back a second.

Jamie: 36:04

Go back, go back. Don't,

Kurt Neiswender: 36:05

because, because you've, you've got a theme going this year, which is sprinkled throughout. We have slang words that mostly younger generations, be familiar with. And thankfully, some of my students use these terms. And, and so I'm now I'm familiar with some not familiar with others. And although Instagram and social media You know, the algorithm works well enough to when you laugh at something that uses these slang words, then they start sending you more. Is that the way? Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know how it works. Okay. It, it does what it does, Jamie. And so now I've, I've watched a lot of. School teachers use their social media channels to talk about how their students use these. So, so Kurt,

Jamie: 36:58

Kurt folks is teaching architecture school, like in a, in a real university in college, yet his spending his times at home, watching reels from elementary and middle school and high school teachers who are teaching the young ins about stuff so that he can feel empowered. Okay, got it.

Kurt Neiswender: 37:18

You know, teach the teacher. Yep. Right. So, so day one, decorate the classroom.

Eric: 37:27

Yeah. And there, there's a little hidden thing in here too. I didn't know if you guys want,

Jamie: 37:32

oh, are you gonna give a good away or do we need to find it? If you can, if you can

Eric: 37:38

find it. Okay. I'll, I'll, let me lead you to it and I, I'll stop short, so

Jamie: 37:46

wait. Okay. Okay. Can, I guess, can I guess before. Can, or at least can I tell you like, so, and this has probably has nothing to do with it, but I want to get it out there just because it's me. So Kurt is like all VR man, which I want Danielle, Kurt, to at least get one moment of you doing the VR thing from the outside, from the outside, like we need, we need that we, we, we all, we all need that. Like, yes, nah, you know, you can have a newspaper in the background. Yeah, Arcade Comptober needs that. I, after hearing Kurt's, like, you know, like, announcement of how he's going to approach this, I was like, well, okay, I'm going to try and get all the sketches for all the days, but I'm also going to dig in the crates and, like, try and put a soundtrack to each one of my sketches. Right, right. So, yeah, so, so each one is going to get one. I don't know where that's going, but that's my challenge to my extra challenge to myself.

Kurt Neiswender: 38:49

So that's where we, yeah, yeah. Well, so Jamie, we talked about this on the last episode a little bit, right? Briefly. And you know, so I think we all know what day two song is going to be, right? Red wine. If you're, you know, right. Maybe. Maybe, maybe,

Jamie: 39:07

I don't know. There's, there's a couple in here. There's a couple in here that just like, just jump off the page to me. Like goat. I mean, like, there's something in there like bougie. I mean, there's stuff in there like Mm-Hmm. I, I could have a whole lot of fun with this stuff. So yeah, some of them, some of them, I don't even know what the word is, but I'm gonna figure, I'm gonna Google it and I'm gonna find out. Mm-Hmm. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 39:28

yeah. So, so was there gonna be hint, Eric? Oh, okay. Gimme hint, gimme hints.

Eric: 39:34

Yeah. Let me, let me, so, I requested words from people, and one of my, one of my college friends, who's a professor at, at University of Kansas, Said that he uses the sub chapters of the 99 percent invisible book to give his students words to sketch. So if you see a, like a, you know, collegiate long, you know, important sounding word, like

Jamie: 40:04

day

Eric: 40:05

22, yeah. And. Ubiquitous and Catalyst Liminal Camouflage, Identity. Those were all from the 99 percent Invisible book. Okay. Which, like, I, he sent me those. I thought they were great. They're kind of specific, but allowed room to kind of get your imagination going, which, so I like those. So I, there's about, which is 12, I think there are 10 or 12 of those. So those were so like collegiate sounding that I balanced those with, I just searched the top 10 Gen Z phrases. And that's where I came up with anything with an asterisk. Love it. Small, chuggy no cap, drip, you know, so it was to balance the, those words. Ah. Love but then when you start getting like, if you start getting into the definitions of some of these there, it really allows for imagination. And like, did I write that? Like, and I believe me, I had to look these up too.

Jamie: 41:16

I had to look up the collegiate words. Those are the ones that I was like, I was like, the other ones I maybe I could maybe venture a guess, but I was like, I really need to Google this.

Eric: 41:27

Bougie was luxurious in lifestyle, yet humble in character. And I thought, Oh, that's, that's a really nice, like, I like, there's something about that. That's really

Jamie: 41:38

nice. Nice sentiment. Yeah.

Eric: 41:39

Yeah. Like luxurious, but humble. Like I was like, okay, so, so, but now that there's about 10 other words that I didn't give a hint to but they do follow a theme.

Jamie: 41:51

Okay. So we have to find the theme. So, so, so we can check in with you at the end of the month and like, see if we have the theme. Okay. Yeah. Challenge accepted. All right. Love it.

Kurt Neiswender: 42:00

This is, yeah, I like it. I like the idea of like, building off of last year's subliminal, subliminal messages. And you'll have to,

Jamie: 42:08

you, you both will have to tell me if like my musical tastes are like par, subpar, you know, sub pop, you know, I had to explain, I had to explain sub pop to Like, like the term and the legend, someone from Gen Z cause they didn't know what sub pop was like, and that really hurt me a lot. Like just like, from a someone who grew up with the Seattle sound as sort of like a soundtrack to my life. Oh yeah. They, they did not know what I meant. I was like, Oh yeah. I like, I went to sub pop and they were like, and I was like, they knew I went to Seattle. And I went to Sub Pop, and I thought it was ironic that Sub Pop is right next to the Amazon, you know, Spheres? Like the big terrariums that they've got? And they are. They're terrariums. Let's, you know, gigantic terrariums. But like, Sub Pop Records is like right next to, like, the big terrariums in Seattle. And,

Kurt Neiswender: 43:14

which

Jamie: 43:14

to me was ironic. And

Kurt Neiswender: 43:16

juxtaposition.

Jamie: 43:17

Yeah. There was a big juxtaposition of things and, and they did not know they, I could just see in their eyes. They didn't know what I was talking about with sub pop. And I was like, Oh

Kurt Neiswender: 43:27

crap. Well, that was your, that's your, your staff, right? Your

Jamie: 43:30

staff, not my daughter, like your younger staff, right? She might like have, yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 43:36

Trust me, Jamie, it's, you know, with the students, you know, I have to sometimes, you know, I have to realize that they weren't even born when anything happened. So,

Eric: 43:46

yeah, and actually, that's what spurred, you know, the words, the Gen Z was, I spent 8 years here in Maine. working in a firm that was just three of us and we were all in the same age. So I had eight years of like a millennial cocoon and I've recently worked, worked at a new firm where there's a lot of younger people and you know, suddenly I'm a, you know, senior architect and you know, everything I was talking about, like you said, goes over their heads. And so they would say, I'd hear these things in the office and I was like, okay, well I'm gonna, I'm going to be Put their words on my list.

Kurt Neiswender: 44:30

Got it. Yeah. But hopefully it doesn't come out cringe.

Jamie: 44:37

All right. So using that as our, our segue, let's talk about Kurt's sketch and then my sketch. And we do have some of your napkin sketches cause you know, I, I'd love the, the thing I would just say this to, as a preface is your your, your Even, even though these are napkin sketches, knowing your sketches from your sketchbook.

Kurt Neiswender: 45:00

you

Jamie: 45:01

have a really definitive style as well. And it's and I want you to kind of describe your process really quickly because like I imagine it when I, this is the thing is like, I look at other people's stuff all the time. I said it many times on the podcast is I try and mimic stuff because I try and mimic it from the standpoint of like, Ooh, that's intriguing to me. I wonder if I can do that too. And, and try and get at how you're making it because that, that, that making is kind of interesting to me, but it, it you have, I imagine you have a really light touch when you're sketching. Is that true?

Eric: 45:41

That's true.

Jamie: 45:42

Okay.

Eric: 45:43

Yeah yeah, well in jamie vice versa like I your sketches like I There's stuff that you do that. I I've tried and I just can't and it's like frustrating. It's like ah, dang it like then something pops up and I was like, oh, that's even better like Oh, look at that shading like I can totally that I would never have thought to shaded but shade like that Like it's very cool.

Kurt Neiswender: 46:08

So these well the the quick these napkin sketches sketches real quick are from you mentioned You Before the show, right there, there is a local event that you,

Eric: 46:19

It was actually it's actually a local magazine, main home and design has a fall drink and sketch where they just have architects and designers come together, landscape architects, and just a social event. We get, you know, you get 2 free drinks and, they put out sketches and have prompts and a series of napkins. So some people focus on one sketch, you know, during the course of the hour. I like to try to get as many done as possible. So the top left 1 was a structure based on your favorite board game. So I went with checkers. There's a possibility of Portland, Maine, moving their train station to downtown. So the top right one is what a train station might look like downtown. The bottom left one was just a children's fort in a park. And then the bottom right one was the reuse, the adaptive reuse of a big box store.

Kurt Neiswender: 47:17

So I,

Eric: 47:18

I pictured, you know, if Target, if Target turned into some sort of vertical garden and And what, what that might look like. So,

Jamie: 47:27

yeah, but for, as a fun one for yourself on that target is Google target Marfa, if you have not seen it Texas and yeah, yeah. Oh,

Eric: 47:36

okay.

Jamie: 47:37

And I'll just leave it there and you

Eric: 47:38

can,

Jamie: 47:39

you can, you can see it.

Eric: 47:41

Yeah, definitely. These

Jamie: 47:42

are great though,

Kurt Neiswender: 47:44

you know,

Eric: 47:44

yeah. Like you said, Jamie I do have a pretty light touch. It's based off other sketches that I've seen that I like that I think you see it more in this train station, but I try to be delightfully vague and have things cross and then end up in dots and, you know, I don't like making things really hard edged or hard lined and, you know, some things I throw in there like, like on the, on the target, these little swirly, you know, I don't, I put little swirlies on the top. I was like, I don't know if those are, you know, wind turbines or, or art or what, you know, but it just seemed like it needed something. But I try to be vague. Like, if, if someone sees something else in it, I feel like I've done my job. Yeah. I don't like being really exact so that that tends to be a lighter touch and then once you kind of get something that you like you, you go back over and you fill it in with the shading and, and might do a little bit of line work. Wait on it. So that's kind of how I go about things

Jamie: 48:49

now. I love that phrase. Delightfully vague.

Eric: 48:52

Yeah.

Jamie: 48:53

You know, and because as much as that sounds like cheeky, Like, you know, if you just sort of like read it on the page, but the way you talked about it, especially with that train sketch, I was like, focused on that while you were talking is, you know, it, it is, it's, it's this, what's nice about it. It's the background really kind of. the station to me is sort of in the foreground, right? And then there's this sort of suggestion of buildings that are close to the station that are kind of fitting in with the kind of context. And those have that sort of, you know, touch and dot and, you know, suggestion of box and form. And then, And then the train, you know, is also sort of really recognizable, kind of up front. And, you know, so there's, there's enough of those elements that you can kind of read yourself into the drawing and, and find that story with it, which is ultimately that's what a sketch is. Right. And I, I just, as you were saying that, that phrase is like, that's perfect. I'm totally using that. So, no, yeah,

Eric: 50:00

one, it really came through with the train station because I was thinking the whole time I was sketching that I was thinking, what the heck does a trans, a new England train station look like? I mean, you can't really go modern and you can't, you know, break, you know. A New England train station was a very, very hard thing for me to put on paper. So it was especially vague.

Jamie: 50:25

Well, and, and, and the other thing I like about it too, is that as you're like, yeah, I need to put the sign on this. And like, I've done that on some sketches too, where it's like, oh yeah, the word is actually kind of important to the sketch, but I don't like putting, if you've noticed a lot of my sketch, I don't like putting words in my sketches. I do occasionally, you know, but even then I'm like, it's like delightfully vague, you know, it's like, like you, like, if you're looking hard enough, you can read the word, but if not, you're just like, eh, it's a sign. Yeah,

Eric: 50:56

I was really happy with the signage on that one, but I feel like that's, that's where my sketches can fail is like, you put the wrong, you write it the wrong way or the wrong font or something and it's like, oh, that's not right. Yeah.

Jamie: 51:08

Yeah, like, ah, damn it.

Eric: 51:09

You know, it's like, I did this great sketch and then I put the word on there. Dopey. That sucks. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. So if I have to Photoshop that

Jamie: 51:18

out, you know.

Kurt Neiswender: 51:21

Well, yeah, I, I think, I think they're all great. And I think the that, that sort of the vague nature and then going back to your earlier point of, Kind of using the materials that you have, obviously the napkin sketch exercise was with napkins, but you know, you're, you're sort of premise of not using too, too fancy of a, of a sketchbook. And I try and impart that to students, right? You don't need it. And Jamie and I've talked about it on many episodes, you know, use the tools that you have at the moment. And you know, ma don't be too precious about anything. So yeah, it, it's, it's the, it's the way to be. And, and so now I feel, oh one, oh, can I say one last thing?

Eric: 52:07

And all like, people make fun of me on my sketches, but birds are always in odd numbers. Ah,

Jamie: 52:15

yes. The power of 3, 5, 7.

Eric: 52:18

Yeah, I

Jamie: 52:19

have four on those.

Eric: 52:19

Yeah, so it's either three or five birds in, in most of my sketches. That's awesome.

Jamie: 52:26

Favorite pen. Do you have a favorite pen?

Eric: 52:29

Tool. Yes.

Jamie: 52:30

Tool.

Eric: 52:31

Yes, I actually, I'm holding it right now. The Unipen fine line. I have a series of these.

Jamie: 52:39

Okay.

Eric: 52:40

At different line weights. And then, uh, if I'm in a sketchbook, I, I, I like my big fat black ink, you know, signature pen for really thick line weights.

Kurt Neiswender: 52:50

Oh yeah. Sign pen.

Eric: 52:52

My sign pen. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like that's, I love those things. Or if you mess up, that's a great way, you know, when in doubt, block it out.

Jamie: 53:03

For sure.

Kurt Neiswender: 53:04

We got to use the, use that one too.

Jamie: 53:06

Yeah. This is going to be, we're going to have lots of good quotes from this episode.

Kurt Neiswender: 53:09

Yeah.

Jamie: 53:10

So, so Kurt, I have a, I have a, I have a. A thought is since, you know, Eric is the originator of these prompts, like I was going to let him do the dialogue on both of ours related to the prompt

Kurt Neiswender: 53:25

and then

Jamie: 53:25

we, and then we can, you know, then we can just banter and jump in from there. Rather than trying to

Kurt Neiswender: 53:31

explain my building, right?

Jamie: 53:33

Well, neither, neither of them, you know? So, why don't you put them, put them sort of near ish one another and he can jump where he wants to.

Kurt Neiswender: 53:42

Okay, well, here, how about we do it like this, a four, a little

Jamie: 53:45

four. Oh, there you go. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 53:48

this is, this is great. The prompt and some sketches.

Eric: 53:53

Yeah. Okay. So the, the prompt is for day one is small S M O L and it's, it's not just small, but it's small in a cute way is the way I understand it. And Let's see, Jamie's, that's the, that's the is that the the, what, which is like the best little decorative renaissance, small building you could have picked like that. Like you nailed it. Like I, I'm a little pissed actually that you got it first because it's just perfect. Like that's what I had in mind when I, that's what I had in mind when I put that word on there. I was like, it's just. It's a perfect way to describe that. The Gen Z way of describing that building would be small. It's perfect. And I, I mean, you have to have it viewing through the arcade, you know, you have to because it sets it up that it's in this it's not out on its own. It's hidden away. So just nailed it.

Kurt Neiswender: 55:02

So, so Jamie gets an A if, if we were given grades.

Jamie: 55:08

It's not about the grade

Kurt Neiswender: 55:09

curve. We're not, it's not. Yeah. Well, I, I should know better. Right. I tell my students that all the time.

Jamie: 55:16

No, no. I mean, for me, it was like, like, it was like, I, I saw the prompt and was like, I think I know what that means. You know, I wasn't sure you didn't Google it. I gotta, I gotta consult

Kurt Neiswender: 55:29

the Google.

Jamie: 55:30

I maybe consulted the Google. But like, and I was right, which was good. And then it was like, like immediately, like, I was like, well, I want it to be a building. Like, cause cause sometimes like. Sometimes I'll deviate a little bit on the sketches and I'll be kind of going over and doing whatever. But it was like, no, no, I want it to be building. And I'm like, okay, so what building? And just the way you've prefaced it is exactly the way, like my brain was working. I was like, what is the most like perfect architecture, like pristine object, but tiny. And, and where somebody like experiencing it for that first moment. And they're just like, You know, like, like channel my own Gen Z, like moment and be like, you know, and that would be it. Like that was, that was what I was trying. I was going for it. It

Kurt Neiswender: 56:20

really is. It really is small.

Eric: 56:23

I love it. I love it. Yeah. I was trying to think, you know, I'm trying to, cause I, I have to sketch after I'm done here, but you know, like the jewel box banks, Louis Sullivan. Maybe those could be small, but and what,

Jamie: 56:38

and, and, and you're, you're right. Cause I was sort of going that direction too. I was like, pick like a cool detail. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, like there's this, the. Like Scarpa with the Olivetti soar, like, it's, you know, it's this kind of, you know, jewel boxy kind of space and whatever. I was like, I went, I went 16th, I went 16th century small folks.

Eric: 57:07

You have to, yeah, modern, I don't get the small vibe in modern architecture. There's something about it being more ornate and decorative that it's, it's small in a cute way. So it's, I really enjoyed it.

Kurt Neiswender: 57:26

So, so how, how then does, does my sketch stack up in, in your interpretation of abstractness? Well,

Eric: 57:38

it's on, it's on a plate or saucer plate or. I mean, it does look like it's handheld, which I think is good. And it's I, I, I think the, I think this, this, the small aspect is there it's organic and yet you have the sphere there and yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 58:01

Don't worry. We don't, we're not doing grades, right. I'm

Eric: 58:06

trying to, I was trying to think if the, if the blue was just, What, what comes out of the program or if you chose blue or

Kurt Neiswender: 58:13

I did paint it paint the, the, the sort of bowl thing and and then did you draw the

Jamie: 58:20

bowl too?

Kurt Neiswender: 58:21

Okay, so that was

Jamie: 58:24

that was the part that I was I wasn't quite sure.

Kurt Neiswender: 58:27

Let me explain. Yeah, I need to and this is a learning moment for me because this is all new technology really.

Jamie: 58:36

So

Kurt Neiswender: 58:37

in in VR with this with this app. Right? So the first basically I left I left everything. I didn't delete much. But you have this, so you're, you, you basically wave the, the hand, the, the joysticks around and, and you can draw, you drew, these are like basically little scribbles, right? And they're, they're not totally arbitrary. It's kind of hard to read them, but

Jamie: 59:08

I mean, you're, you're creating them. You're

Kurt Neiswender: 59:11

basically drawing. I mean, if you had a piece of, I mean, you don't have paper. I mean, it's basically in space. So you can go X, Y. Or, you know, whatever, X, Y, Z. And so it, the, the, the initial tendency is to draw like basically this weightless spaghetti, you know, like around, and then you can change different pen types and stuff. And then they had this other tool that is like, uh, Basically, it gives you a ring or a circle, and then the, the, the way you move your hand, it's like

Jamie: 59:47

like a potter's wheel.

Kurt Neiswender: 59:49

Yeah, kind of, which is what creates this revolve. As you're

Jamie: 59:52

describing, I was, I was imagining it's like, there's almost like two different actions going here.

Kurt Neiswender: 59:59

Yeah, well, and they were, I didn't build it all at the same time. I, I, I sort of changed tools and basically created this revolved. Now. in and, and then it basically draws it symmetrically. So you're kind of like just trace this profile and it sort of like carves the plate, which is, is all of, all of it so far is rather intriguing because how Well, a, the, the, the, the plate piece is very mathematically driven, right? All I have to do is just trace the profile and it starts, you know, extruding it or, you know, generating it. And then the noodle, the noodles or whatever, you know, the little squiggles are interesting because you're just kind of like it floats and it moves in space. So the, so the, the thing though, is that there's for me, at least so far is there's no sense of scale in this space. And you can, you know, like basically grab the objects and make them big and small, big and small, big and small. So what I did and what would have helped me is if I had something for scale. Because I, I drew this big plate that you see, and then I shrunk it down. And then, and when you're in VR, it's like, you know, down there versus up here in your face. So then it starts to appear smaller and the curves, you know, become a little less. You know, the, the tightness of the curves kind of scale in and things, but I don't have anything to compare it to. Right. It's like, you know,

Jamie: 1:01:46

so was there a moment

Kurt Neiswender: 1:01:48

when you were

Jamie: 1:01:48

in VR, when you're like,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:01:50

this is

Jamie: 1:01:50

cute,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:01:53

kind of, especially when I shrunk that plate down and it was sitting there and then I, I cut a little section through it, which is kind of cool. And then you have the profile line.

Eric: 1:02:06

Yeah, I like Jamie's question. And I actually, when you put up looking at it, the plate. Is cute, you know, and almost if you would have, you know, turn it upside down, you're not far off from, from Jamie's drawing. Like, I think you could almost like the way you were saying it, you could do the outline of that building and you would have created, it would have been like this cute little bowl, cute little plate. That's right.

Jamie: 1:02:35

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's almost like, I mean, almost created like a little vignette, you know? And It's

Kurt Neiswender: 1:02:42

that's, that's interesting.

Jamie: 1:02:43

Yeah. And I think that's, that's a great observation because it's like you, you almost create this little vignette. You know, and the way you were just, you kept describing it, Kurt, with your hands and you were like, Oh, I was playing with the big and the small and like you kept using the word small, but not the word small, like that we're seeing on the prompt small, small, small with the a, the small with the a, not the small with the O. And, you know, and as you're making these gestures, I just kept thinking the same thing. I was like, it's like, he wants it to be in his hand. And, and then, yeah, it was like flip it upside down and kind of like, I was like, ah, yeah, that's, that's kind of, well, the

Kurt Neiswender: 1:03:22

flipping is a great idea. It was. Essentially, like in my head, it was like this big,

Jamie: 1:03:30

but

Kurt Neiswender: 1:03:32

Instagram fills the screen. So, but I am learning some things from this critique because now I want to try. So tomorrow will be interesting because I will try red wine, but I want to try and actually, I don't want to make the gravity sketch thing. Look like a hand drawing, but I want to take some of the shine off of it and make

Jamie: 1:03:54

it look a little

Kurt Neiswender: 1:03:55

rough. Well, to take the shine off, you might

Jamie: 1:03:56

need to get a bottle of red wine and drink some of it and then put the VR goggles on and then ask Danielle to take a video of you while you're doing it. Well, we have 30 more opportunities to capture. Oh, yeah. Red wine, red wine's the big one for me though. I want to see, I want to see this. So

Eric: 1:04:16

yeah, coffee sketch after dark. Yeah

Jamie: 1:04:20

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you were hitting all the hashtag prompts for me right now

Kurt Neiswender: 1:04:31

So that that was great I feel like it's, it's

Eric: 1:04:36

really cool, Kurt. Like it, it's really, it's something I've never really, I like it. Oh, Oh,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:04:41

Oh, thanks. I feel, I feel validated via, I feel like I can, uh, on the same plane. Right. No, no pun intended.

Jamie: 1:04:55

So I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to throw this out there. Cause I know that we're getting kind of close to the end of the episode, but Eric, would you be willing to come back on at the end of the month? And maybe has like, like, I'm thinking of you as the, like, I think of your job for the month of October for us sketchers in architecture world as you're like the curator, like, like, like we're all getting to play in your museum. And you're like the curator, like, and you've kind of given us some parameters to play with and said, the galleries are open, y'all go do your thing. Would you be willing to come back at the end of the month? And maybe, maybe, you know, or November and sort of chat with us as a, like a. An epilogue to all this.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:05:42

Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to. Yeah, that's a good idea. And, and thank you for saying yes, because, because then we will have, fill the whiteboard and we'll have a pinup and, and, and we'll have some red wine. 62 sketches, buddy. 62 sketches. So the lightning

Jamie: 1:06:04

round to end all lightning rounds.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:06:06

Oh, goodness. I don't know if you ever listened to that episode. The lightning round was was that last? No, it was, it was a while ago. We've done it.

Jamie: 1:06:16

We've done it once in a while. Like it's

Kurt Neiswender: 1:06:18

they can it's a current creation. Yeah. Yeah. It's a sort of the, the mad genius, but this would be, it would be the epic lightning round. Let's see. Is there, is there a word that would yeah. It would be, I guess it's a vibe. Oh yeah. Okay. So

Jamie: 1:06:38

put, so put the prompts back up just to end. Cause I just want to ask Eric like one final question for me. So of the prompts, which like, cause I'm, I imagine as you're sort of curating some of this stuff, you're just like, Oh, that's a great one. Like, like, I can't wait to see what somebody might pull on this one. Like, is there, is there like, like a, is there one that you can just sort of like go, I'm just, I can't wait. Like, I'm,

Eric: 1:07:07

yeah, well, and like what you said about being the curator of this, this, I, I know. Not personally, but I know a lot of people that participate and certain words. I picture certain sketches. So actually on yours, I actually was most excited to see at create at creations was the one I really was looking forward to seeing on yours, your style challenge accepted. I have another friend that I was excited about. It's a vibe. She always, she has very, you know, intricate, beautiful sketches. So I was excited about it. Bougie. I was definitely looking forward to and then yes, to go was an odd one that I, you know, I did some retail architecture. So, you know, things like, you know, Are you going to go the retail route or is it, is it things that are quick or, you know, the, the thing I've always enjoyed is like, I don't like when people like, are real strict with the words, but I like to see. There be some sort of connection and You always do a good job of that Jamie like you kind of take the word and kind of branch out a little bit Like that's what I enjoy seeing so to go was kind of one of those that I was like Oh, it could go a lot of different ways. So

Jamie: 1:08:33

but I appreciate that I mean it will and and and for Kurt, I mean it, you know, this isn't calling you out Kurt But this is like this is your first year that you're gonna be like fully leaning into it. So I'm excited Cause there was a lot of words in here, just as you were saying, Eric, about like, once you're like, Oh, I have a friend who might do this. Or Jamie might do that. You know, I'm knowing Kurt's going to participate hopefully for all the whole month or most of it. Like, like there's a plenty of words in here that I'm just like, I want to see what comes out of his brain, you know, on, on this, on this particular one. Cause it's, it's sort of the same thing. And like, like ones like Kurt has used the word liminal. Way, way too many times for me, like, and, and so I, I don't know what that's going to look like as a sketch, for instance, you know, and, but I'm all for it. I'm here for, you know, I, I will be the target audience for that. I'm

Kurt Neiswender: 1:09:33

glad it's near the end of the month. It gives me 30, 28 days to figure it out.

Jamie: 1:09:39

Yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:09:41

it's great. So yeah, I feel like we have a bit of the inside but baseball as far as now we know that it don't take it too literal is that you have some fun with it. So, yeah, I did. I will say what my parting thought just to help promote. Promote your prompts, promote Arcingtober, as I've told my, I've, I've shared it with my, my lecture class in the morning, and then some of the, a lot of them are in my studio class in the afternoon, and so I, I showed them the prompts. Get that, get that guy who's

Jamie: 1:10:16

teaching with you, who does all the, the ragdoll sketches, like, I would love ragdoll sketches to come back.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:10:23

Oh, yeah. Eric knows the ragdoll

Jamie: 1:10:25

sketches. He knows what I'm talking about. Like I'd love for the ragdoll sketches to like, start showing back up, like in the real world. And if he like maybe participates, you know, in this, that would be fun. So.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:10:38

But the students are there, you know, I mean, well,

Jamie: 1:10:41

they don't listen to our podcast though. Him and Evan. So, you know, it's,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:10:46

I think they, I think they do.

Jamie: 1:10:48

Maybe they do. Maybe the

Eric: 1:10:50

students will get the third thing. Okay.

Jamie: 1:10:55

Oh, okay. All right. So you say the old guys won't.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:10:58

Oh, challenge

Jamie: 1:10:59

accepted. We're going to work on it.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:11:01

I like that. All right. I'm going to, we'll, we'll, we're going to circle back. I think we've held our, held our, Guest hostage for, for long enough.

Eric: 1:11:11

This has been great. It's really, I mean, it's been great. It's been great to talk to you guys. And, and I felt like you were friends on social media and, and it's nice to see that. I feel like it works in video as well.

Jamie: 1:11:24

Well, and soon, hopefully in real life, in real, real life. So thank you so much. And, and, and we're definitely holding you to that, like coming back at the end of the month for, for the, you know, the recap

Eric: 1:11:37

That sounds good.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:11:38

All right. Thanks.