Coffee Sketch Podcast

093 - Enter the Matrix Coffeehouse

December 31, 2021 Kurt Neiswender/Jamie Crawley Season 3 Episode 93
Coffee Sketch Podcast
093 - Enter the Matrix Coffeehouse
Show Notes Transcript

Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!

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Kurt:

Morning, Jamie.

Jamie:

Good morning, sir.

Kurt:

How do I sound? How, how the levels,

Jamie:

the levels sound good. Little sound good. I think we're right there. I think we were both, it's, it's early it's caffeinated time, where we're still writing a, ha. Of our journey.

Kurt:

Jamie's still on vacation inside the closet somewhere.

Jamie:

That's very

Kurt:

moody. Like I like that, especially for our topic today. So, before we, pull up a sketch, a very new sketch, it will be a fun one. I want to let me go first. Cause I have, I have props demonstration, so I'm enjoying, see, this is the company. Well, the grocer Oliver T's there. So this is the maple bourbon, April bourbon that I have in this. So it's good. Let's see, like give you a, give me a little preview of it's, it's actually, it's pretty mild. I was just thinking that this morning on my first cup, it's pretty mild. Do you get the maple and the. I think kind of get the bourbon, like if it was a barrel aged sort of roasted flavor, I suppose now that there's so many barrel aged beers and stuff like that. Right? So this coffee has this nice.

Jamie:

As you said, it also had like a really good scent to it that you kind of really,

Kurt:

and it has a nice after taste. I, it just, it stays sweet. Yeah,

Jamie:

well, that's nice. Cause I mean, sometimes some of the, I find that sometimes the flavored blends, have a, a bitterness sometimes in the aftertaste, like the whole first part, the smell, the taste, all that's good. But then you're like, Hmm, Hmm. afterwards.

Kurt:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I like that about this, which so how about you? How.

Jamie:

I have switched over. so I'm not doing the maple pecan. I brought some of the beans from the, one of our other favorite shows. twin peaks.

Kurt:

Tweeds. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah. So from the double R yeah. Nice. Very nice.

Kurt:

Yeah, it was also thinking about twin peaks. now I gotta catch up on that maybe this afternoon, since we are almost to the Christmas holiday, maybe I'll treat myself

Jamie:

with an amino. You really should.

Kurt:

Thanks. I'll take that as a, as a, he deserve it.

Jamie:

And and the other thing is I did inquire and find out, that there's helicopters, which we'll probably talk about in a little bit, but so I brought the sound effects today. but the, note to self, that I did talk to Jason about our, firewalk with me. No other other movie that we thought we would maybe try and live watch simultaneously

Kurt:

through. And we're going to jump right in if you don't

Jamie:

mind. No, absolutely.

Kurt:

So, as we mentioned in the last episode I guess as the day of the recording, it was the, the release date for the matrix resurrections. And now. After some movie magic, you and I are now talking about a little bit of matrix after we've seen it. But so this is the sketch to commemorate the day that you've made, which is which I post, I think I made a comment on either Facebook or Twitter and either said something like absolutely or excellent or both or something like that. I just thought this is a really cool. cool rendering and a cool sketch of Trinity from the matrix. And you'll have to remind me which, which episode it must have been. The first one. This is the

Jamie:

first. Yeah. And it's

Kurt:

the phone booth? Yeah, the phone booth scene. there's such great darkness, like dark hatching. That, but it doesn't muddy out. I think a lot of, you, you can get a little crazy with not you, but one could get crazy with 10. Oh, oh, we're going

Jamie:

there already.

Kurt:

How many minutes? In our, like three and a half. Yeah. So we're, we got it. No, no holds barred. No, not you, but one maybe myself can get a little heavy handed with the black ink. And you start to lose the depth, right. It becomes just a flat, just, and this thing has a lot of really nice because you still got the cross hatch. You're really heavy cross hatch behind her. And then a little bit of a pushy, I would say in, in between her hand. Oh, I've found a new tool on. On zoom here. That is, it's kind of fun. Let's see. So here's the heavy Pushay behind the hand. Did you see that? Did you say? Yeah. Yeah. I see. Hey, and then over here, I thought this might be useful. Stark, magenta, quite a contrast, but. the cross hatching over there and then into her, her outfit, right. You've got a lot of these dark, but you, you, you keep some of the streaks of white in there that maintain the form and the shape. And then obviously, a fantastic, sort of headshot here or the. The main event, right? The, Trinity, right. Which, which now that we've seen resurrections, I've got, I've got some interesting thoughts.

Jamie:

So if you've made it to this point in the episode and you haven't seen the movie yet, and you don't want any spoilers. This is, this is your warning, and, and I'm glad, I'm glad you love the sketch because it was just sort of, I was, I was thinking about like, what were.

Kurt:

what would like the most,

Jamie:

yes, it was all for you. I was trying to channel like, across miles. but no, I w I was thinking about like, we, we talked a little bit about sort of our, you said the word Canon, that the, the matrix is sort of like Canon and I thought, yeah, is that first movie is easily. In my top five movies, and and you start thinking about images, for you. And I, I guess we sort of see, see things in pictures and sort of can recall things. And we talk a lot about that, but it was like this scene and, and some other scenes that were just so, in depth, in, right here, it's the phone booth, it's the, I mean, how many times do you go in a phone books anymore? Right. but her kind of hand on the glass and, phone in hand, and then. surprise. You're just sort of like all these moments of surprise and suspense that were in that first movie were just sort of incredible, as they sort of, made you really rethink, kind of what you were watching for the first time. and so, yeah, I was just. I decided that that was the image I was going to look for. And, and then sketch from a sketch from a photo, and, knowing we were going to do this today. So yeah, this was,

Kurt:

yeah. Yeah. There's an interesting similarity in, in this and what we talked about on the last episode in this sort of. Effect, I'm going to use the term vignette, but so it just bleeds to, to page or to paper, right? There's no defined it. Doesn't run off the edge and, it doesn't have a frame so to speak, which actually is really neat. It's a very nice graphic, almost comic book.

Jamie:

Well, it does have sort of a panel. Yeah. Kind of that kind of, kind of unique panel quality. But for me, it's it evokes the idea. Tell me if this resonates is the idea of almost like a memory. I mean, it's sort of like, like a flash in your memory. and that was sort of the. That was the intent was I knew that I wasn't going to try and fill the page or, bracket it. I rarely do that anymore with, with images. but this. It was sort of struck by like trying to get the, for shortening right of the hand. but which I think, I think that that part I was very happy about. and then as that sort of, that's where the sketch actually started was I drew the hand first, just to kind of. Sort of knowing that if I got that, where I wanted it on the page than everything else about the frame was just going to start to set itself up. And then, there would be likely plenty of white space to kind of, get the effect that you're talking about.

Kurt:

Yeah. Especially with four shorten, one point perspectives that, that scale or. Can be almost, it almost seems wrong at first, if you, because if you actually looked at somebody with their hand, you don't see very much arm. Right.

Jamie:

It's the

Kurt:

arm, the hand to the body it's like, but the scale to the hands gotta be, I mean, look at like right now at the camera, so yeah. Yeah. I could see that makes sense to draw that. Yeah.

Jamie:

And it's always sort of that, that thing of like, okay, well, I'm going to, sort of dive right in. Just like you're about to do with this, this movie, and, tackle the tough, the tough part first, sort of knowing that that is the tricky part, as opposed to avoiding it, doing all the other special round it, building up the anticipation to deal with the difficult part. I sort of dove right in and wanting to handle that right off the bat.

Kurt:

Yeah. I like that. I think, especially with. In studio this past semester with a group of second years, it's I encouraged a lot, a lot of them to not, to not avoid the hard part, right. To do the hard part first think through that. Right. And everything else kind of falls into place. So it sort of a teachable moment, I think you're right. don't, don't avoid the tricky, the tricky aspects. And, anyway, so. I won't, I won't spoil the heck out of the whole movie, but there are certain aspects of the new movie that I wanted to just throw out there in general. Right. This is the, and so we do this from time to time, we kind of talk about pop culture or movies, and the things that have this sort of internal. interconnected with the sort of art and architecture and design and, and, and, and so on. So this was just another chance for us to talk about something that we are big fans of, the matrix trilogy, and now with the, the fourth movie. In the sequence, which so my first point will be is that I did kind of appreciate the sort of self referential and the sort of making fun of themselves a little bit in, in some of the dialogue, they kind of teased. Well, they teased about not only the trilogy, but even kind of some of the jokes kind of extended toward the directors, the makers of the movie behind, behind the,

Jamie:

and sort of the notion of not to completely talk over you, but it's like, the, the, the word that, that I'm, that I'm struck by is. Yeah. in, in the world, in which we live right now, where everybody is rebooting all of these different franchises and, and characters and hold scripts and old ideas. they, they went there with it, in this, and, and I love that about the movie as well. Was it because I think they did it in, in, like you say, sort of a self referential. kind of joking with it a little bit, but at the same time there was also sort of a level of, are they really joking about it, or is it, is there a nice sort of seriousness, almost, almost the way like a satirist, would sort of, approach sort of the subject. I thought that was, I, I particularly enjoyed

Kurt:

that as well. It wasn't too tongue in cheek or too. blunt. I mean, it was very sophisticated the way they, they addressed it and, and the, the concept of the reboot, right. we had the trilogy and the time difference, some would, you could call it a reboot or whatever, but because they played it off of the content of. The character, which is the video game developer, who, so, so Thomas Anderson. It's a video game developer and made a video trilogy again, trilogy called the matrix, which is, I mean, it's kind of like, I guess it's, I it's taken me time to kind of process some of what I saw. Cause it was, there's so

Jamie:

much less than

Kurt:

less than 12 hours ago, anticipation and build up to, to what, what would this become? And, without getting so overwhelmed by put the, yeah, I thought the premise was, was, was very neat. And, and w I think, a good presentation of kind of bring, bring back some of us who were there for the beginning, and then I think possibly could it, attract a new audience to it. there were no painful. And they made a comment about that too. Another there's plenty of these sort of, I, I don't know those jokes, like those inside jokes, I guess, that they had, they had done, the, no payphones. Now we don't need that. And, well, I think there should we have, we should dedicate at least five minutes, I don't know now or later, but about some of the Easter egg items and see how many we can recall. I don't know if you want to do that now or a, well,

Jamie:

I mean, we, we can, we can start that now. all I was going to say just is that I, I, I think where you were headed and sort of setting up the premise, Anderson is now, sort of set up or introduced to us as a video game developer who has made this game and it's based on, and the trilogy is the game. And so there's this immediate recognition that there's sort of two worlds again. similar to when we were introduced to the matrix to begin with where it was. here's a hacker, who's sort of living two lives. the video game developer here, is, is sort of living two lives through his creation and you can sort of see that level of that. He's frustrated by it. And he's, there's clearly something that sort of eating at him, in a similar. Way that we, we met, Anderson slash Neo, in the, in the first film and that sort of restlessness of identity and. and there's a lot of identity overtones, throughout the matrix and, through the original matrix to, which I think is, is, is just part of its DNA. both from the people who created it. But I think also sort of the story that it was trying to tell, and the world that it was trying to create. So yeah, I thought it was a really clever plot device to sort of use that. that kind of job today, as, as, as a way to kind of reintroduce the same character and it all feel familiar, but yet different and maybe fresh for a new audience, like you say,

Kurt:

and the new city and a new city there in San Fran, which, tech, tech, Silicon valley, Makes sense. Right. They're a little less than the gritty Chicago sort of street scenes and stuff like that. But yeah. Thanks for keeping me back on track. Cause I, I almost went right past, like how to, I didn't really know how to set it up. I figured you'd probably help me out there. but yeah, th that was, I thought that was a useful, and very well it's still. I think one cool thing overall, right. Is if you look at the start to finish of each of the movies individually is they do follow a certain, I don't want to call it a, a rule book or something like that, but there's this sort of format that, that in, I mean, there's the general story. Aspects. Yeah. Three act storytelling, but then there's certain key parts that they, they reveal to you in the mood and they still, so the, the, the format of the fourth movie, or I'll, I'll say the word format, but it had a lot of the same feeling, right? It it's the same directors, a lot of the same, well saying, some of the same characters, but a lot of. So they didn't, it's 20 years, right. They could have changed the entire way to make the movie or present the movie and they didn't. And I think that helps tie, tie it all together. Again, like again, with the trilogy, it helps keep it from being too disjointed or disconnected from, from, the last time. They filmed or at the end of the third movie. So, but then, so like maybe this will help as an example, right? There, there is a consistency in symbology or symbolism. I'm not symbology, but maybe it's more a symbolism, right? Red pill, blue pill items that are red items that are blue in the movie, either clothing items, or. Outfits hair, color glasses. Right. and, and so those, those sorts of all little details. Yeah. The details that hint at, I enjoy, when, directors or filmmakers put those things in there to, to, to challenge the viewer, to be present and be, try and be aware. Of more than just the dialogue or the face, the face-to-face interactions or the gun scenes or whatever, but the fact that they, still brought in these elements of color and when a glitch in the matrix occurs, there's still a black cat. And in this case, again, with the tongue in cheek sort of jokes, the cat is actually named deja VU. Right.

Jamie:

And Mr. Andrew, and that Mr. Anderson doesn't like the cat. So yeah, I know you don't like my cat, so,

Kurt:

which I think, putting. I was, I was going to say Doogie hazard, but, Neil Patrick Harris, Neil Patrick Harris, as the analyst character with the cat owner of Dasia who, and wearing blue glasses, which, prescribed who he prescribed, Thomas Anderson, a prescription of blue pills, which is real. I mean, the kind of. It maybe, I don't know if some, how others would react to that, but to me, it, because another general theme is, is, is directed at all of the anybody out there doing the movie and the message about, being aware of your surroundings and what you get sort of trapped into. I, like technology, social media, other, career paths or dead-end careers or, things that cause people to feel trapped. Right? So even thinking about how the doctor is prescribing blue pills to keep Andersen trapped in this version of a reality that. It's supposed to feel comfortable

Jamie:

and even going further with that too, is that, it's sort of, it's, it's a, an interesting juxtaposition because before we had the architect, right. and now we have, the therapist, who's, who's, trying to delve in and sort of lean into, listening to. kind of giving him a little bit of agency, to, talk about, why he's worried and, and sort of even walking him through his own process, which I thought was sort of unique. it was, you could, it was sort of setting up this idea that they'd been doing this for a while, that they had had these conversations for a while. And that, and what effect was, really effective as you have the protagonist and antagonist sort of meeting. In in therapy, but at the same time, there was sort of a power dynamic kind of going on, and, and at the time you're, you're not even sort of realize. is this really what it is, is, is this person, the person we think that they are, and, is the, is the power differential sort of flipped, when does it flip? and, but, but, but as you were talking about though, too is, yeah, there's definitely, it's, it's this idea. of questioning, your own motivations, your own reality, in your sort of like, like you say, sort of the, at one angle, sort of the dead end career and sort of your career path and your, the life that you're leading and the settling, the kind of, the idea of settling, for the life that you, the cards that you've been dealt or, but also, the. the concept of just identity itself, the directors, talk about that. or the directors of the original trilogy siblings, one of the siblings, directed and sort of created the, this fourth one. but it's, I think that whole, Idea of identity is really explored in, in a way that's accessible to a variety of different audiences and, and not just in the imagery. but I think in sort of the, the, there's. tropes and cliches and characatures of people, there's there in a very short amount of time. They're trying to round out and flesh out, the, the dimensions of the characters, even the new ones. I think they, they introduce a couple new ones, which I think were really clever and useful. and with a little bit of some hearkening back, to, characters that have now aged. but yeah, I think, I think the ideas of, who we are, and how we see ourselves, and how we want others to see ourselves, is really, really important as a theme. kind of that duality of how we see ourselves in real life, the IRL, and, and in the. and I think that that's, I think that's an everlasting struggle for everybody really. whether you're struggling with your identity or not. but I, but I think it, I think this was a seminal piece in. Bringing that up, in a way that no one had really done it, not in an definitely not in a movie like this. and, and definitely not where, it was, sort of carry all the way through, in a very, very consistent way. And like I said, not sort of as a trope or, sort of some throwaway concept, it was just sort of. I think that's the word, that I would say is, and, and, and, and straight forward really. it was, but I, and I, and I think that, that, I think the thing that sort of hit me with it, was this sort of duality of Neo and Trinity. that is present in all the first three films, but handled in a different way. and I think in this one, maybe with reflection, which off ski has sort of, dialed it in a little bit differently and really kind of, it, it felt like somebody felt like somebody who was very mature. in, in handling their own subject matter, meaning the matrix, like we've, we've created this world, we've created these characters. We've created this dynamic. now I want to take it one more step. What did you think about that? Well,

Kurt:

well, before I, before I answer that, I think, again, going back to the identity thing is just to split. do another spoiler of those Easter eggs is, is catching the reflections of certain. It wasn't just specific characters. It was many different characters there, and it wasn't direct reflect like them standing in front of a mirror. Five seconds of whatever there that happened. There was a couple of those, like, clear, clear, like here's your reflection in the mirror. And then there were other sort of, incidental reflections of agents, Smith, and Neo and, Trinity and, and, so where the reflection was not what. Anticipated to see, right? So you see a different character or a different face. And I thought that was a really clever way of, I guess kind of revealing the, the boundaries of the matrix, right? The sort of the dimensional shifts as well as those, those questions on identity.

Jamie:

Well, yeah. And, and, and using, I mean, that's the thing, I mean, for us, I think as. Artists architects, and then enjoyers of popular culture. Is there something about the spaces in which we live. and, and the, the definitions of that environment, like you say, is that the, the mirrors and the mirrored surfaces, the architecture of the spaces, and even sort of, there's some other subtle, like Easter egg nods will have many I'm now I'm getting excited. that is the. In the space that the world, that the world building we've talked about world-building before. and in this case that, just even just the concept of looking at yourself in the mirror, there's the, the literal, the literary phrase, looking at yourself in the mirror kind of thing, or, but then there's the literal. when you're seeing it viscerally on the screen like that, or in a reflected surface. And you're getting these hints that are really, subtle Easter eggs of, that time is really a different concept than you're. Then you're led to believe in the movie, which is exciting. And, and, adds to the layers of meaning, but also just that idea of, of, of identity and kind of who we are and where we are, where we are in our lives too, probably. cause there's some of that, decisions that you've made and sort of led you down paths and they're sort of, now, as I say that I have one question for you. Did you appreciate that all of the deep conversations occur in one particular space other than the therapist.

Kurt:

Yeah. I mean, we're we're where was that? The,

Jamie:

what were they?

Kurt:

Well, Well, there was many deep conversations. but the, yes, you're right. Yes. Right. Which, which again, sorry, the dead air. I'm like, you caught me off guard, but the, what was it called SIM? What the name of the cafe was, Samuel simile Simon cafe, or it was simple. What was the name? It had a funny name that was sort of like simulation related, right. Or the sort of the AI or the, the matrix version. Yeah.

Jamie:

That's sort of like the, the greenest lines that were just all sort of, dashes of code in the logo. Yeah. But it was, it was a coffee shop. I mean, come on, it was like, I mean, everything's going to be about the coffee shop,

Kurt:

so that's right. Good call. Good.

Jamie:

And then like, I think, there was three coffee shop orders, I think in the, in the, like dealing with the Barrett, barista and I mean, this movie was about coffee and I mean,

Kurt:

Oh, it was good. A damn fine cup of coffee. Exactly.

Jamie:

It all comes back. It all

Kurt:

circles back to that. Well, yeah, but the knee. So the name of the cafe, which I can't remember. and then, but then the name of, Neo's company Deus Mokena. Or machine God or the, the God machine. Right. So I'll again, like all of the various, and some of this stuff is not directly stated, they're just there. Right. And you just have to, you gotta pick it up as it's getting put down. But I think that's always been a very, and this will come back to that question, but Trinity and Neo, but, There's always been this subject matter of like, are we being ruled by machines or are we still an autonomous thinking being as a human, right. The human humanity versus AI or machine? And then using names like Deus Mokena, which I, I had to make sure that Deus the way it was spelled, but so God in machines and Neo is, an acronym or if you re reshuffle the letters, it's the one, right? He is the one, they also call them the one, but his name is Neo and Trinity is, draws from sort of religious texts, right? As, as sort of the Trinity of, of the Christian God, right? The father, son, and the holy spirit, at least that's how I pull, because then also if you look back in the trilogy, right, Neo Neo is the one that they can say. All right. The one that's supposed to help save them all, which is sort of referential to Jesus. Right. That's sort of the Christianity aspect again, but then coming back to this movie, they really emphasize that he alone can't do it. His power is really, only really fully realized. When he's with Trinity or they're physically connected, capable of being, being together and working together as well. And

Jamie:

ne and there's a scene where, there's somebody, one of the newer characters is sort of asking, Neo, can Neo sort of asking her, for them, You look upset, are you worried? And, and they, and they say back that they're, they, Trinity and it had special, meaningful. as sort of a, a touchstone kind of, individual and, and Neo kind of acknowledges. Yeah, I get that. And then, and that goes to S goes on to say what you were just talking about that, even though he was the one and everyone kept telling him that he didn't, he didn't believe in himself until. and, until Trinity believed in him, and that sort of unlocked it and then yeah, and then their, their presence together and sort of always the, and, and what was interesting was even, sort of, a different conversation, different setting the therapist, as they're, discussing this framework of the new matrix, was this acknowledgement that. It's not just Neo. even though everybody, everybody thought that it was only just him. but it wasn't just him. It was him and her. and that the two of them, and sort of this mystery of, connection between the two of them, that no one else wanted to try and define and that, the two of them seem to always acknowledge with a glance. As opposed to defining it themselves. I was, it was really, really sort of, a powerful expression of love and, and, and, and not being able to. Describe it and not trying to describe it, which I thought, I think, someone might, critique that and say, oh, I would've loved for the, th the writing to be a little bit more poetic or, or, or profound in that moment. But I think that as a film, I don't think it needed to be profound in that moment. I think that the setup and the premise, and then the two actors. and the, the clear chemistry, between, between the two actors kind of playing off of one another in that moment. And in other moments, as they're acknowledging to one another, is, was pretty brilliant. I mean, I think that that's, and that's, I think that as a fan, a lot of people, want to see. and sort of see explored and this, the film doesn't disappoint in that.

Kurt:

Yeah. It's funny how to, how I got caught up in, through the four films, you also kind of think they, they make you or early on. Right. They just made, you want to think it's Neo it's, Neo it's Neal and through it all. I think it's really been Trinity. The whole time. I mean, it's really, so which is, gives me the goosebumps and, once you realize, how they, how they finish the fourth movie and, with, with the finish, I, I, I was texting you and, the,

Jamie:

And I was totally engrossed in the movie. So I was like, I didn't even, like, I didn't even see the text. I saw

Kurt:

the, one of my favorite things. Well, maybe cause they're one of my favorite bands rage against the machine, but they've always had a rage against the machine song at the very. Credits, the ending credits, scenes and they did it again in the fourth one. And this time they used the cover from this band called brass against which is, a female singer and a backing band that is, Oh, a brass instrument band, right? They have a drummer and a guitarist, but I mean, they've got this bolt. If they have a lot of YouTube videos, if you go and check it out where they cover a lot of different bands, a lot of raging it's machine songs and they cover tools and they cover, some other heavy, heavy, heavy metal or rock songs, but. brass instruments, which is really cool. And, so they did, they did wake up by raging against the machine, which has always, I think, completely fitting song for the matrix. Right. wake up, get yourself out of this, snap out of the, the sort of perception that you're, you think you're in reality and so on. So I think. It was, it was, it was a good one. I, I, I kind of want to watch it again. Yeah. I think, I

Jamie:

think half well, and I was going to say, and you didn't disappoint me. I, I, I, I was gonna try and do my own slew thing on, on the last track. because I, I too, love rage against the machine. Hmm. But I knew I just had this feeling that you would, you would figure it out. You would figure out who the artist was, because I know that you have an affinity for them as well. and that was a nice. a nice surprise and in a nice sort of twist on it, where it was, it's the mashup, it's the, it's the cover track, as opposed to the original artist. and yeah, I think it was, it was, it was perfect for the film.

Kurt:

yeah. See if you're, if you check out brass against, I mean, there, I don't know how big, of a. Presence they have, cause they do primarily cover songs. I think they do original songs too, but they, they, they kind of represent this new media genre of using YouTube as an outlet to get there. Their music talent, out there. And I'm just trying to think, 99.

Jamie:

So you're saying it's like, my space is like now YouTube for musicians is that there are, my space was used to Manny. Damn. Right.

Kurt:

Well, I mean, there's so many, like even Neo himself said. Something about 20 years, right. It's been 20, right? No,

Jamie:

exactly. Well, and that was the thing I, I mean, I dunno if you ever got to see rage, live, but, it, I have once, once as well. and yeah, I mean it, even when I saw them, It was, they were one of the first, they were first or second band at Lollapalooza one year. And, and at that time, like their album had dropped and people were kind of like, who's this band. but they're, I mean, they have such staying power and such presence and lyrically, So current and poignant. and so yeah, it, it makes sense for, someone to kind of revisit it in this kind of a way. and I always, I love, a good sort of a good creative cover. and yeah. I think bands that are doing that and, and using sort of different genres to, to, to play that game is, is

Kurt:

kind of like, Yeah, but yeah, that was, that was, I was trying to say is that, I was trying to think, rage would have been relatively, lesser known when the first matrix came out and now, so it's kinda like giving another artist a platform to absolutely, absolutely. Take it out there. So it's all in all right. So many, so many good things. And anyway, so. Well, we might have to do a rewatch and then revisit some more Easter eggs in the future. But I think for

Jamie:

now the rabbit tattoo,

Kurt:

well, yeah, I mean, yeah, that the whole Alice in Wonderland, constant the constant references and stuff anyway. Oh, that's so good. Well, thanks for recapping. I think, I think we're on the same page. And we've got to rewatch in order.

Jamie:

Yeah. And, and the definite two thumbs up,

Kurt:

and two thumbs up in a mug.

Jamie:

Thanks.