124 - A'23 SketchUp Interview Part 1 - Sumele and Steve

Mike: 0:55

Okay, perfect. Yeah. Yeah. We can do that. Yeah.

Jamie: 1:22

With,

Mike: 1:23

yeah.

Kurt: 1:24

You want middle? Yeah, you can side. Well, we're going, are we sitting or standing right? What was, didn't we

Mike: 1:32

decide. Cool show. Yeah.

Kurt: 1:36

Perfect. And then, let's see.

Mike: 1:39

Oh, it's funny if reach,

Kurt: 1:46

this is so fun. The, the, the, the true test is, will, will I be able to get out

Mike: 1:52

of

Kurt: 1:52

this thing?

Mike: 1:52

I know it's a little low. I'm not

Sumele: 1:56

a little tricky.

Mike: 1:56

Oh, good. Yep. I'm settled.

Kurt: 2:04

Should have broke my little, my little tripod. But

Jamie: 2:07

you need to hold it off.

Sumele: 2:08

Should we brush it on that? What you think? Have

Jamie: 2:17

anything to

Mike: 2:18

good.

Kurt: 2:32

What's that? The, it pivots on the top if you need the top. Top.

Mike: 2:40

Oh, oh,

Kurt: 2:53

oh. Yeah. I didn't know how many seats you're going. Or you want me to move over? Well, I did it. I got out successfully.

Mike: 3:04

It's a, it's a task. It's cause it's early in the morning, so

Jamie: 3:08

then you just need to wake on. Yeah.

Sumele: 3:11

I just did a power walk off. Like,

Jamie: 3:18

are we ready? Ready? Yeah.

Kurt: 3:19

Hey, Jamie, how's it going? Good. How are you doing? I'm pretty good. we are doing something a little different for this episode, and so we're, we're, we're gonna kind of do a, a brief introduction of something that we just did at the AIA conference in San Francisco. we were invited, to interview with SketchUp, the, the software developers, at, Trimble Technologies, I believe. And then, you know, our fan favorite, software called SketchUp. And so we have, something a little different for, for us at least in Coffee Sketch podcast. So we have, an interview with Sum. Steve talking about, the ecosystem of applications that SketchUp has created to make our lives as architects a little more integrated and I guess, all under one, under the hood, under one roof of, of software. And, and then also we are, we are. From Steve, we learned a little bit more about the, 3D warehouse and some of the integration that they have with AI and improvements to the 3D warehouse. Yeah, I mean,

Jamie: 4:41

and, and I think that, you know, we're. This is our episode 1 24, and there's gonna be a companion episode 1 25, sort of a second half to this, conversation. But I think that, you know, the, the, the first part, you know, and cheers to you with the coffee, my friend. but yeah, the, I think the, the, the first impression that I had. And I think, you know, I maybe speak for you on this as well, is what was impressive about the ecosystem was it was readily apparent in speaking with both of them that, that from an internal point of view, that that that design and that feeling of being in SketchUp and sort of the, the whole SketchUp ecosystem as they're adding new features and new components and new initiatives. That it still feels like SketchUp. you and I were joking with them about how long both of us have used the product. we're not gonna date ourselves here on the podcast, but we certainly have been using for many, many years. and. So, you know, from that standpoint, you know, it was, it was also sort of super cool from a fanboy kind of moment, to, you know, to meet the entourage, mo model in, in person. and, and she was, she was very generous in taking a, a very posed photo with us. but I, I think, and we'll, we'll definitely kind of, you know, highlight that one in the, in the show notes. But, but yeah, I think the, the overall kind of, you know, Impression for myself was that, that that ecosystem was really, really intentional. I mean, and it certainly could have, you know, having worked in a variety of different softwares, you know, it could have felt more like a plugin and it wasn't, it could have been a script routine and it wasn't. and, and that sort of intentionality of it, I think is something that was really apparent. So, and something that I, I really appreciated, cuz I think that that's the whole, the, the gift sometimes of SketchUp, you know, when you're working with a team that maybe doesn't have as much familiarity with, with that kind of software or, or maybe comfort level of kind of collaboration, kind of maybe younger team members or, or team members through kind of a real, particular way that they like to work. SketchUp and its environment really is collaborative. and our next episode kind of talks about that even more. But, I think that ecosystem sort of has something to do with it. I think everybody sort of feels comfortable there, and, and allows, there's a, a, a great part of a conversation which you, you'll hear where it's, it allows us to be ourselves in that space as creatives. And, and I think that's really came through for me. And then the, the 3D warehouse, I'll let you sort of talk to that too. It's, they, you know, we all kind of are, you know, AI is here. that there's no denying that it's more, but it's more about, you know, how we're using it and, you know, the efficiency aspect of what was shown to us is certainly something that was exciting. and it went beyond being intuitive.

Kurt: 7:56

Yeah, I'd say, you know, my impressions of this conversation with Samil and Steve, you know, the, the ecosystem just kind of, it was a good reminder that that SketchUp like many softwares, doesn't stand alone. And in, in order to, to provide a, a rounded experience for an architect or designer, you need to, to sort of. Push and pull, no, no pun intended, but, you know, move from, from different softwares and, and sketch up and within their ecosystem, they have now a, a, a wide variety of tools that keep you within the same family of, of operations. And, you know, that familiarity that we talked about, which is, is just a great reminder, that you know, it. It, it's not a tool a, a software that, that is losing any ground. I think there's a lot of really interesting things that we saw that you'll, you know, most everyone in the, in the architecture world will, will soon see. and then as far as the 3D warehouse integrating with AI is same thing. Is that same? It, it makes it, it takes a lot of the intuition. And, and translates it to a digital tool like SketchUp or the 3D Warehouse, which is a, a, a library of other 3D models. And now you can just drag and drop images into there and it'll seek out. You know, using the AI algorithm, the, the science behind that to do what it's good at, right. And find other, like images and, and then produce a, a search result that we can actually take advantage of. So, without further ado, I think we'll just kind of roll it into that portion of the interview

Sumele: 9:49

Yeah. You guys have used Sketch it sounds like. How many

Mike: 9:55

years? Tell me.

Kurt: 9:57

Well, we were doing the math. On the walk over here and Uhhuh, I first trained on in

Mike: 10:03

2005.

Sumele: 10:04

Oh, one year after you

Jamie: 10:06

I started. How about you? Yeah, I think, I think that's about the

Mike: 10:08

same, like oh

Jamie: 10:09

5, 0 6 maybe. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So

Sumele: 10:12

I was in architecture school, started using it, and it was probably the best thing since sliced bread because it was either you were doing like really complex models by hand or you were drawing the mo the pans by hand, or you were trying to learn a really complex software, which I was not

Mike: 10:30

prepared. Right. From z

Kurt: 10:32

I shouldn't have, shouldn't have dropped a name yet.

Mike: 10:34

Yeah. I was trying to

Sumele: 10:35

avoid that, but, you know, you're good. And so I, I started using it 26, 2006. And in the time that I've known it, I think one of the, the biggest things that I've noticed is the evolution of SketchUp. You know, it started as one 3D modeling tool and now in my mind, It's an ecosystem at all, but one thing hasn't changed. It still allows you to do good work very easily. I don't know if that's true for you, but that's, that's what I've, I've discovered. So the ease and the speed at which you can do stuff is still true to the ecosystem, but I think the beauty of it for all of the customers that we talk to is that it allows them do work without being hindered. Just get on with it. Right. Like get, get the hundred technology out of the way. Let me do my stuff. Let me figure out what I'm trying to capture. Be me, let me be me. Right? Right. Let me be, be creative. Right. and so that for me remains the DNA of the product, and that's what we're trying to champion no matter what we're releasing. But I think it's important to clarify the fact that it's not just one tool. Mm-hmm. We started off with the desktop modeler, but now we have modelers on iPad and on the web. Right, right. We've got tools for documentation. Layout for 2d.com. Documentation, annotate, you know, bring your thing to life, combine and, and collage all the different bits of your design and tell a story that's there too. pre-built assets. This is, this is the one that blows everybody's mind, like millions of stuff already done for you, right? Either by other users or by manufacturers, which means you have access to real world things and you can say, Hey, I want to use this flower port or this lighting, piece. I can show it to my client and not feel like I will railroad myself in the design, right? Because it exists in the real world. I can go buy that thing. And that's never happened. So, oh my God, oh my God. The number one don't do for any designer. When somebody gets

Jamie: 12:32

sold on asking

Sumele: 12:34

them what you're showing us and you're like, actually, I'm so sorry. No, this doesn't exist. Let's try this other option. So that, that in itself is like a sweet thing to offer to the market. And then we have extension warehouse, which is. Yes, you have sketch up. The native tools are fantastic, but if you want to take it to a hundred, you could plug and play all the different things to do your work a lot faster or more efficiently. this is the piece that I think people are missing out on. Viewers for ar, viewers for vr, HoloLens, immersive experiences so that you're not only showing people on a screen, you can kind of put them into the thing at one-to-one and have them experience it, feel the textures, see the colors, see the lights, how they might look in real life, right? And then have that conversation to iterate on what you're trying to create, right? I think that piece is every time I show it to someone in London at Clerk and War, and they were literally like, whoa, oh my God, this is so cool. And we've seen that at AIA as well. So for me, that's something I'd love to be able to show you guys as well. You have a, well, especially

Jamie: 13:36

with, you know, the, everybody moving towards, you know, the goggles that every, that everybody, you know, thought was gonna happen. Then when it, the first iteration of those came out, everybody's like, what is this thing? Like this isn't, this doesn't seem real. Mm-hmm. Some cyberpunk kind of world, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and now we're really seeing it. Yeah. You know, where the, the tech is really kind of all there and the people who are using it are there as well. Like, like what you're describing. Yeah.

Sumele: 14:06

And it's the adoption code, right? It starts off really slow. The early adopters will jump on it. Yeah. But I think more of the industry is like, this is not going anywhere, so maybe we could leverage it for something that's useful for our work. So really excited about that one. Vra, as, you know, top line vendor is part of the package as well. but that's our best package. and then tools for pulling in data, right? Like real world context. You can't get away from it if you're redesigning a house or you're trying to take, take stock of your site. Being able. Pull in point clouds or being able to import a model from somebody else, like a Revit model. Mm-hmm. That's now possible on schedule. and then the last two things, sustainability is something we're not getting away from, right? The AIA 2030 commitment booth is right there. Everyone's trying to do their bit to help us meet. Oh, there we go. You and there. everyone's trying to do their be to help us get to, carbon neutrality, zero energy buildings, all of that kind of stuff. And we have tools to support folks with that. and then you have to collaborate. You know, Trimble Connect allows you share models, see models, stay on top of what's happening, what's the latest thing, for this project, and not railroad yourself again by working on something that's already outdated. Well, and

Jamie: 15:19

it's funny because it's like, I think that like both of us have a, a small and medium size perspective on the practices that we've worked in and that we're more familiar with from a data flow. But you know, I think that those kinds of tools that you all have now as innovations are kind of get the scalability mm-hmm. Of things for, you know, beyond just sort of one or two types of audiences to something that's bigger. I mean, I, I mean, personally, I'm, I'm excited also sort of about the sustainability and, and, and that kind of connectivity because it's, because the language of communication that the product has always had mm-hmm. Like you were saying mm-hmm. Having that as sort of a next level education related to

Mike: 16:01

that makes a whole lot of Well, yeah. Well, I was just gonna

Kurt: 16:04

say, I mean, because I, teaches I teach Yeah. As well as practice and

Mike: 16:09

so, and podcasts, extra happiness. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I,

Kurt: 16:13

and I've taught in the past as well, so, and, and spec. Yeah. And we both have the experience in that, but I, and specifically in energy modeling and things like that. And so, you know, I've, I try and engage. To students with these tools as before they come outta school and get jobs because it's gonna give them leg up and it's the feature and then the idea of like, you know, like Safara or other energy modelers. Going back to what you said in the beginning, you know, sketch up is a fantastic visualization tool and, and ability to present. And so the energy modeling as a visual Yes. Right. Component, how that works. And instead of numbers, I mean, cuz we all know it's just like, well

Mike: 16:58

in, it's a database in one

Jamie: 17:00

of those lines too. It's like, this is the first time that I've seen it and, and maybe just a missed it, but, we were talking about this before was with SketchUp moving to kind of where it is now with Trimble and all and Yes. and that evolution, like the word ecosystem, like, is sort of like that. It really does make sense now. Right, right. And, and so I just, I. Is that something that, you know, internally as a company and with y'all's experience, do you see that sort of, that mindset as sort of driving all of the Yes.

Sumele: 17:32

The work that we're doing? We, we really believe that SketchUp is useful across the entire design lifecycle, right? It's not always gonna do everything you need, right? But it can definitely help you along, right? And so that ecosystem is trying to touch all the different points in the, in the lifecycle and say, Hey, how can we help you out? How can we make it easier for you to tell the story you're trying to tell? And keeping it really simple, helping people

Jamie: 17:59

do it quickly. So you're iterating, but you're also ability to iterate along the timeline. Along the timeline and circle back if you need to.

Sumele: 18:07

Yes. Without using the creativity, I think is the key, right? but yes, we're definitely rallying around the, this idea of ecosystem, trying to share that with the market. Because what we learn a lot is at, especially when we're at conferences like this, Says, Hey, I didn't know Ske did that. Really it does. It's been there for ages. We'd love to share it with you. Right. And show you how the rest of the community is doing this work so that you can get the most outta what you're, what you have in your toolbox. So that's, that's my agenda. Oh

Jamie: 18:36

no,

Mike: 18:37

that's perfect. That's great. Yeah. Alright. I'm

Kurt: 18:39

excited. I'm excited that it's kind of like, it's always one of those things, you know, just, it exists, but remembering

Jamie: 18:47

that it does exist. Mm-hmm.

Sumele: 18:48

It's really useful. And then using it, but to focus in on why your hair truly is some of the latest features that are out in the open. We're getting them out in the wild and really excited about it. We want to see people try it out, give us the feedback so that we can iterate and make it better. One of the first ones I'm going to share is 3D Warehouse. you might be familiar with it. You probably have used it. Mm-hmm. one of the things that Guz, who's our resident community warehouse guru. Loves it works on it helps it be the best that it can be. is we want to make it easier for people to find the models that are on there. You've got millions, millions of models right on there, from uploaded from across the world by lots of different people and many very different languages. how do we make it simpler to find what they want to get on with their work? So Goz is gonna show you a bit about

Jamie: 19:41

what we've been doing, reduce the frustration of searching for the thing that, you know, is there Absolutely. That somebody has built. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's,

Steve Guzman: 19:48

and you may hear sometimes people refer to me as Goz. Sorry, Steve. Steve,

Jamie: 19:52

Guzman and it Okay, goose. Okay, good. That's what, that's, that works for

Mike: 19:56

us. Alright. Works for us.

Jamie: 19:57

Alright.

Mike: 19:57

He's gonna switch. Okay. I

Kurt: 20:00

feel like I'm connecting Dots are, is there a, is there a scale figure of you? so, you know, like the, you know, the 2D Yeah. Piece me.

Mike: 20:09

Yes. And,

Jamie: 20:09

and I will share that. Like I, I did take a picture of the scale figure. And like my team was just like, we have a, we have, we're doing a, an education conference for our Rrn network in, in Texas. And they were like, we totally need to do a scale figure for, we need the sketch up scale figure for our conference to meet with all of our people that we're doing these designs for. Cause that was brilliant to,

Kurt: 20:36

yeah. That's always been fun.

Guzman: 20:38

Yeah. So I didn't hear anything. So let, let's see something here. gimme one second. I'm just, pulling this thing up. I, I, I didn't know if, you knew, if, if, if you knew that Sam was, the scale figure.

Kurt: 20:55

that's why the name is familiar. Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Guzman: 20:57

Yeah. So, that's right. Yeah. And, and we actually have her scale figure over there. Yeah. You know, So, yeah, let, let me, so you know what I

Jamie: 21:04

was gonna, my team was fan fanboying and fangirling about

Mike: 21:07

it, so it's

Guzman: 21:09

easy to do. Yeah. It happens all, all the time. So, because internet here is a little bit like, underwhelming. what I was gonna do is

Kurt: 21:16

just wait, aren't we in like, near, near the tech mecca?

Guzman: 21:19

yeah. Well maybe everyone's using up on my internet. Yeah. So what I was gonna do was just show you basically what I would've demoed live, okay. that way it could also be a little bit hands off and I can kind of talk to you what's going, what's going happen to happen here. so, let's see. Full screen this. There we go. so with 3D warehouse, of course we have over 4 million public models. We have a lot of private models as well. Right. But, when you have that many models, you know, it's extremely helpful because if you're designing and you don't want to go through the trouble of adding, you know, like say in the case of interior design, drawing VAs and chairs and TV and TVs and all that kinda stuff, Yeah, all the entourage elements. So 3D Warehouse has, a very strong community of people who are sharing content with 3D Warehouse. but you know, and it's also global. So we have people in Brazil, people in Italy, Germany, like all sharing things. They're using their own naming conventions, right? And so traditionally, as you're familiar with 3D Warehouse, you can type in bed, but you're not gonna find comma, you know, from some guy in Spain who designed this awesome bed. And so, so language being a barrier to helping you sort of sort through the 4 million plus models that we have, we, you know, like while having the content offers efficiencies, what if we could make finding the content even more efficient, right? Mm-hmm. And so what we ended up doing was applying artificial intelligence to basically classify all the models in 3D warehouse. And then what you can do is, you know, like, and, and what we're looking at here is 3D warehouse lab. Which is what's coming new with 3D warehouse. It's like an open beta, I'm showing an image, and now I can just drag the image in of whatever jpeg that I was looking for and have the system return results. No words necessary, no descriptions. Right? And so, and what happens is, as you drag, and this is hard to describe, what is this, right? is it a chase lounge? Is it

Jamie: 23:13

a right, right. Is there an ottoman and

Guzman: 23:15

a chair? Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. So instead, by just dragging it in, it allows you to navigate those, those all those millions of models and kind of get you down to exactly what you're looking for. If you look at the names of these, would you have typed that to find Cha novo or Z Zada, you know, llama chair. another example would be maybe you're doing construction site planning and you're like, okay, I need to have a digger. I need to have, you know, a cement truck. So you don't ha like you can have a collection of the imagery that you're gonna be looking for. Cool and just drag it in. These are actually toys I get from Amazon, like, like, you know, saw images up, but it understands the concept and it finds the appropriate models. you know, you're doing a little interior design, succulents are always a hit. Right. So, but you know,

Mike: 24:01

so, and they're easy to sketch.

Jamie: 24:03

Yeah. Like

Guzman: 24:04

in the, in the old school way, in the, yeah. In the old school way. Right. Yeah. But yeah, one loves one. So, so yeah. And, and here, right. So like, I'm, I'm finding, you know, like this is a great example right. Of, of something that, that you might want to add.

Jamie: 24:18

So as the, as the results come up Yeah. Like, is that, is it prioritizing some of them as well,

Guzman: 24:24

or It, it, it does prioritize them. Okay. It, it really what it does as I drag the image in Buckys Yeah. You know about Buckys, right? Yeah. So, as I drag the image in, it actually, the AI system adds a, a numerical translation, what it understands that image looks like, and it looks all through the millions of models and says, What number is close to this number and it finds the appropriate. Gotcha. So here in this case, I didn't have unfortunately a Bucky's T-shirt, but I had t-shirts. It knew what I was talking about. Okay. So if I'm designing a retail space, so here's the one I took with my camera. I was like, here's an elk cuz we live in Colorado. And I shot a picture of an elk and I was like, just, just kind of playing around to see how varied, you know, like, the AI is willing to go. and so it found horned animals as I scroll. Like I find maybe this is a reindeer, maybe it's not an elk, but it's close, you know? Right, right. Yeah. And so, and then there's samia, right? There's does it find samia? Right. and so what, what we believe is that the doom scrolling that can sort of occur ah, and then you're like, you stop and you give up and you're like, let me try this word instead. You know, like just all of that is eliminated now. Right. That's awesome. Yeah. So yeah, there's, it's a really

Kurt: 25:32

smart way

Mike: 25:33

to integrate ai.

Jamie: 25:34

Well, it sort of, yeah. And it reduces the, the need for like having to have a tagging convention. Yeah. Which is sort of the way everything, what you did sort of in the, in the, in

Guzman: 25:44

the interim. Exactly. Right. And, and you know, and currently you can sort by categories and subcategories and, and, and this sort of thing. And it's like, is that this is, you know, the 21st century AI world. Like, are those even important anymore? You know, when you can just go, this is what I'm looking, you know what I'm talking about. Right, right, right. And, and now you can still apply filters, right? So I can drag something and go, wait a second, less than 10 mags, less than 10,000 polys. I, I can still apply those limiters to it. 3d. 3d, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so, so yeah, using image search, applying the filters as needed, and, and just helping hone in on the, the valuable items. you know, and, and it starts right now with just, having a, a, you know, maybe a folder fold imagery that you want to add in. But we're gonna be doing other things in the near future, where you don't even have to download the imagery. You know, you could just be like, You could just be perusing the web and say, I want this. Or like, I could even do it on my phone, you know, like, you know, basically take a photo of the beanbag chair or the FCUs and it'll find it on my phone. You know? So. That's

Jamie: 26:43

fantastic. That's cool. Yeah. Well, and we, and we, we have a lot of debates

Mike: 26:48

about AI and sort of where

Jamie: 26:49

it's going and, and, and sort of what, how does that tool that obviously like, you know, it's, it's, it's the computing power. It's, it's, it's the time saved. Yeah. You know, and like you said, it's, you know, you know what I'm looking for. Yeah. Like, it's, it's that moment of, of how does that integrate to the process. Right. And this makes a lot, this makes a lot of sense. Especially cuz you, yeah. Otherwise you are Zoom scrolling, you know,

Guzman: 27:12

personally. Yeah, e exactly. And I think that's the whole plan with AI integration with SketchUp products is like, how can we augment the experience for the designer? Like, like, you know, you know, you do hear people saying, oh, is it gonna take my job? No. You know, like, that's not what we're looking at. We're saying how can we make your job more, you know, like more efficient. It, more pleasurable, more intuitive. Yeah. Right. And, and you know, just like we said, you know, I don't want to go back to the Windows 95 days of click on this folder, the subfolder category. You know, like this is more intuitive. I wanna be able to eventually just speak to it and go, you know, I'm viewing my model in AR and going, let's put a couch here. And it goes, I know what you're talking

Mike: 27:48

about, and just doesn't.

Jamie: 27:49

Right, right. Well, kind What are you thinking about? Yeah,

Guzman: 27:52

yeah, yeah. Yeah. More collaborative. Right, right. AI collaboration. so, so yeah, that's image search for 3D Warehouse currently available in labs, which is our public sort of, early, adopter experience where any user who goes to 3D warehouse game, just click on, you know, check out labs. And anything that we're developing that we're considering in the, in very near future, we want early feedback on it. Are we in the right direction? What's broken? What can we make better? you know, before we, we really evaluate it for, you know, like a more like, Commercial release. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kurt: 28:27

Cool. So that's, I mean, labs, so labs exist, and this is available already.

Guzman: 28:33

That's right. Yeah. To, to tinker with. Yeah, exactly Right. Yeah. We're, we're, sort of unveiling it, put it through its pieces this week. Yeah. And then, so all you have to do is go to 3D warehouse.sketch.com, and then when you go there, look up it by the logo where it says 3D Warehouse, check out labs. Ah, cool. Awesome. Yeah. And what that'll do is, this is the classic 3D warehouse experience. Yeah, yeah. But as you click on labs, you'll get a preview of what the new 3D warehouse is gonna look like when it's coming here in a couple months, and also get to use some of the tools that are still in development, and, you, you know, just, verifying that, you know, we're on the right path to, to, you know, providing the solution that's valuable to the users.

Kurt: 29:11

And I would like to thank Lauren Sum, Steve and Mike for inviting us to this, fun and, and educational conversation about the ecosystem that SketchUp has to offer. And we look forward to seeing what else they have in store. And hope that we can keep this conversation going between Coffee Sketch Podcast and the folks at SketchUp.