Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!
Buy us a Coffee! Buy Some Merch to Support the Show!
Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!
Buy us a Coffee! Buy Some Merch to Support the Show!
Hey, Jamie, how's it going? How's it going? Do you feel one episode older now?
Jamie:
I, I do. Do you, do you, do you feel an episode older?
Kurt:
I am, we are now one, two, three, a hundred twenty three. And, I'm looking down. You can't see, can, can't see my, oh yeah.
Jamie:
Somebody, somebody's giving you some hints.
Kurt:
Yeah, she's says this episode better not be as long as you say it's gonna. Jessica, oh, she left. So I'm off the hook. I think Danielle's on it. how you doing? We, we are trying to do a little, as much, as much as we can, cram four, five days of a conference into a couple episodes. Yeah. So here we are. We're gonna talk, we're gonna talk a little bit more about the AI conference that we were just at. So, so how are you doing? It's still filtering,
Jamie:
so, so are we, are we in the green room right now or are we in the episode?
Kurt:
I thought we were plenty warmed up and so we're in in, we're in what can be the episode? So this
Jamie:
is good. This is good. I'm just, you know, I'm just double checking
Kurt:
with the little editing magic
Jamie:
too. Editing. Oh, it's the editing magic for the intros and outros.
Kurt:
Gotcha. The, the wand. Yes. yeah. So, how, how's, how are you doing there in Texas?
Jamie:
it's still a bajillion degrees. It's a bajillion now, not just a million. It's a bajillion.
Kurt:
Is your AC keeping up?
Jamie:
Thankfully,
Kurt:
yes. Yeah, I gotta imagine you might have some neighbors that might be, you know, oh,
Jamie:
it's distressed. It's, it, it, it is. I mean, you know, I, there's, I, I have seen some, some messages from some friends who were like, you know, anybody had any power issues. cuz I mean, the, the, the grid here is still an issue. and it's not, not just during the cold, it's, you know, also during the heat. and definitely, definitely something that I think is, on the minds of lots of folks. and it's, it is really kind of unfortunate. I mean, you were asking about rain and things like that and, you know, I, I'm not, still not sure why I try and have a garden in Texas, but I enjoy it. So
Kurt:
Are you, do you have a rain barrel?
Jamie:
No. No.
Kurt:
I need one. got hell, I got, I got a detail for you. Yeah, right. I've got, I've got, I got, I got a barrel, which I was probably lamenting last episode. How, how, how it was all clogged up with whirly birds and seeds tree, tree seeds and things like that. But, actually there was a chunk of shingle that's not good off the garage. That's, yeah. Hopefully, yeah, let's not, I don't wanna go down that road. Let's move on.
Jamie:
Yeah. Other house repairs that you're like, no, don't, please don't remind me.
Kurt:
Yeah, yeah. I'm tired. I'm tired. My arms are tired. so what, what, what are you drinking these days?
Jamie:
Or, well, it's, it's still, it's the qve, you know, we're, iced
Kurt:
iced copy.
Jamie:
It. It's, it's, it needs to be warmed up, at this point. but I actually, I actually read something recently, that. makes a lot of sense, but it's something that I hadn't, I'm not an iced coffee person, by the way. It's like there's, there's probably only one place in Austin that I like. I will get iced coffee. Joe's, Joe's Coffee, also another Austin Original. they, they have a pretty tremendous iced coffee, so, but I did read that if you like, you know, rewarm up your coffee like in a microwave or something like that, it actually changes the flavor profile. I'm not sure if that's, Internet fact or fiction. But,
Kurt:
I think there's something to that. There's probably something to that. So there's, microwaves, you know, the,
Jamie:
microwaves sink in.
Kurt:
It's, it's electromagnetism. No, the, I, I don't do this anymore. You're gonna be mad when I say this, but, some, sometimes I go and let my mother-in-law's dogs out at lunch and I will pour some of her coffee pot into a cup and nuke it to warm it up and, and drink that while I'm waiting for her dogs to do their, do their job outside and. It's not great coffee to begin with. And so then it's even less, tasty. So now I'm not doing that anymore because I, I gotta. I gotta keep up appearances
Jamie:
because of electromagnetism. Right? It's all about the electromagnetism. Yeah.
Kurt:
You can't, can't sleep on that. So, so anyway, I am. Also wrapping up. Well, I have, as, as I mentioned in the last episode, I had, a small sort of sample batch of this Burundi, roast. So, an African blend, or not blend, I should, a roast from a source source, that's the word. black label sample. No, no notes. So it was, it's, it's very good. And it's, it was a small, a small little sample bag. So now I'm sad. Do you see
Jamie:
the jealousy on the face here? Yeah. Yeah. I
Kurt:
get to brag about it for two episodes. Yeah. So, so, so while we were in San Francisco, we, we had to, we got to wear our t-shirts. Oh, we have a, A chat. A chat. Excuse me. well, thank you so far. We are extremely educational. Yes. So thank you.
Jamie:
It's all about the electromagnetism and coffee, so we're just, we're helping folks out.
Kurt:
That's so is becoming a science podcast, right? Lemme throw we, you know, We gotta, we gotta say, if you want a t-shirt, a mug, or your very own bag of coffee sketch, podcast, coffee. We have that up on the website there and and like I mentioned last episode, I, I promise I won't be, you know, dangling this in front of Jamie too long. I gotta send some to Jamie so that we can both roast some on the next episode so that we can, so that we can experience the coffee sketch podcast coffee together, right? Yes,
Jamie:
absolutely.
Kurt:
So let me jump in.
Jamie:
So this is the second of the recap episodes, that we sort of highlighted last time. and we're gonna dive into, a little bit more from the conference on architecture, in San Francisco that we just got back from. and a little bit of a focus on sketching. Cause you know, that's why we're here.
Kurt:
It's, it's part, part of the title, right? Yeah. So, well the, the sketches we have here, it's actually super fun. it's really only gonna capture like one day of the conference, but it's the, the la the very last day of the conference, the Saturday of the AIA conference on architecture, and Jamie and I joined, I mean, the Coffee Sketch podcast hosts can't not join a walking sketching tour of San Francisco. And so there was a session where we joined a, a a, a big group. It was quite a big group of people. I, I, I would say at least 50. Oh yeah, easily. We need more, that we're, interested in, you know, looking, you know, taking a little walk around San Francisco and then doing a little sketching and, and getting to sort of, challenge ourselves with some 15 minute sketches. And, so on top here you'll see Jamie's drawings. And on the bottom row, which you rarely see are Kurt's drawings. I know it's only because Kurt is not as prolific as Jamie, but. But we have, so in each frame or pair of sketches from top and bottom are from the same station in the sketching tour, well except for the last one. The last one, the sketch is from that last spot. And then the tops top image is actually the, the final throwdown of the sketchbooks. So everybody threw down their sketchbooks and we kind of talked about bits and pieces of people's sketches. It was a lot of the first time I've ever done anything like that. So it was a lot of fun. And so anyway, so even though we were standing at the same spot for all of our sketches, everyone kind of sketched something a little bit different and took, you know, used their own eye and their own interpretation of how much space to capture in the sketch. Even under the direction of kind of sketching the same object, which I thought was kind of interesting. We still didn't wind up with 50 of the same sketches. There was some nuance and some differentiation between, individuals. And so, and I also, I stole a little color from, the, the host of the tour and kind of, smudged some color onto one of my sketches, which was something I hadn't done in years. So I don't know. I mean that's, I'm doing a very, the, the, the briefest synopsis of, of kind of how to capture this whole session. But it was about a two, two and a half hour, I think, session. Yeah, yeah. No,
Jamie:
I mean on Saturday morning. Yeah. And I, I think that that's the whole thing is that, that, even for folks. who are sketching a lot. It's those moments when you get into those sessions that are, you know, you know, a two hour tour or sketch session. You know, you, you kind of walk away from it being, you know, a little bit, a little bit tired, you know, because you're, you're, you're kind of, you know, there's, the, the only thing that I, that I wish we had been able to do was have a little bit of kind of a warmup session. And I think I remarked about that on that, that first, that, you know, sort of joking about it a little bit, in that first pair of sketches at the far left, and it was, You know, kind of, you know, it's difficult to go from, you know, zero to 60, in sketching world, right off the cuff. but it was, it was great. you know, the, you know, I, I think by the end, definitely felt warmed up and then it was like, oh, you know, is it over? You know, you're tired, but at the same time you're exhilarated. and then I think just the energy of just, you know, that many feet, you know, fellow architects, and, you know, fans of sketching kind of all in one spot, you know that that energy is pretty infectious.
Kurt:
Yeah. Well that first spot was quite chilly. Yeah. It, it was about a warmup. Yeah, we, I was looking for some hot coffee. We didn't have enough time, but yeah, it was, it was quite breezy and wind. Windy and cloudy. So, luckily it warmed up a bit by the time we got to the end. And also our sketching warmed up too. Right. Yeah, I would agree. The, it definitely evolved and, and, although I think too though, the, so there's like four stations that we were, we went to, and so four hosts at, so one at each station. And the energy of the host really kind of helps sort of set the tone for it. So at the second station, there was no. Waiting around or, or listening, or how do the, the, his name was Lynn. He's a professor at, Clemson, I believe in, in the architecture department. And he's just like, okay, you're gonna do this, then you're gonna do this, and then you're gonna, and then, and then, and then keep going. And then there's, there, there's that line. You draw that line, you know, and it was, yeah, he was ok. You know? Yeah. There, there
Jamie:
was, there was no arguing with Lynn. And I don't mean that in a, in a bad way at all. I mean, I think it was just, he was there, you know, to. Like he knew he had only a little bit of time and he was super excited and passionate, to help everybody kind of get started and get moving. and, you know, thinking about that space. and I think, you know, part of his, honestly, you know, his might have been one of the, the more difficult spaces to kind of try and capture too without thinking it through. And I think that's, you know, as you were sort of describing it, you know, it was certainly something that, it, it was really apparent when you got there. It was, it was a forced one point perspective. and for those who think of San Francisco and sort of winding streets and the terrain, you know, this was one where you had the end of the trolley line and the, the, the turntable carousel. So, And so we were, we were there, you know, it's not like this is a controlled environment or something like that. There's pedestrians kind of moving around and kind of taking photos and, you know, because it's, it's one of those kinds of sites and you know, it, you then you have this sort of street lined trees and then kind of narrow space. and then multitude of the, as you sort of see there in the sketch was how do you start to create these other intersections that you're sort of seeing in the distance there. On Kurts, I think it, you know, he picks up kind of that darkened line and sort of almost like strata as you're kind of moving up the page. along that sort of forced perspective.
Kurt:
Yeah. Well thanks, I appreciate that. Are you still there? Yeah,
Jamie:
I'm here. Yeah. No, no, I'm, I'm, I'm listening. So.
Kurt:
Well, it's kinda fun to compare the two you, you captured, the carousel element that turns the trolleys around, a lot better than I, mine, mine, kind of represents,
Jamie:
well, it was funny cause, you know, as Lynn was sort of describing like, you know, how to set up the perspective. I was like, I was, I'm listening to him and I'm trying to, to kind of, you know, learn and follow his, because you, you do learn from, you know, mimicking or watching other people's sketch. you know, even if I don't feel like I'm, you know, don't seem like I'm paying attention, I'm paying attention kind of thing. But, but the, but the other part of it though was there was this couple. That had just, you know, conveniently parked themselves right in front of us, you know? Right. Right in front of that, that turntable oval. And I was like, I have to get these two people while before they move, because they were gonna help me sort of set up the scale for this sketch. And you could hear them like debating where they were going next. Almost like you could imagine what they were saying to one another. But at the same time, I think they also heard Lynn talking about like, them them,
Kurt:
yeah. I know. Lynn was like, okay, see this man, see this woman. You gotta put them right there. Yeah. That was, yeah, that was a lot of fun. The, yeah, you, well, you, you got them, you got them in there. Yeah. They, they kind of went, they went this way and they went that way and they went, yeah. And then they finally left. I think once they heard Lynn, talking about them, they kind of like, all right, we gotta get outta here. And they're, they're in, in like 50 people's sketch right now. No. Yeah. They're, they're
Jamie:
immortalized in a bunch of sketchbooks and they, they, you know, you know, people were, are you architects? Yeah. Yes. I, that was my, I think that was my Texas accent, but, you know, I, I threw that in there.
Kurt:
I'm not sure. You know, the one thing I noticed, especially that, because that one was probably the most focused. Vantage point is your trees, the asymmetry that you put in the pair of trees, you know, so on each side of the street, I think, well, a is probably more accurate to the reality, but B adds a little more dynamic. movement in this, in the sketch, whereas out of, I think just sheer automate automated habit, I, I kind of like framed mine very symmetrical or proportional on each side, which, which really slows down. It really kind of makes the, my sketch more static I feel, and less dynamic, even though it's a one point up the hill. I think I kind of lose a little bit of the, the, the, the movement I guess from depth, right? From foreground to background, things like that.
Jamie:
Well, and I think the only thing in your sketch that you know, might have, if you had maybe had another five minutes, you know, not a lot is if, I don't think what you're describing would be as. And I don't think it's as, as you're saying it is, but you know, maybe as a parent to you is that extra five minutes would give you a, a chance to kind of start to, get the storefronts in that, that upper foreground. I was, I just managed to, you know, at the end I was just getting to that spot. and, and getting a little bit of that entourage in that, that immediate foreground of the picture, which I think ultimately helps that sort of sense of streets kind of cascading away in the distance that I think yours does way better than mine. and I think you could have spent a lot of energy on that, more so than myself. So, it's, you know, and that's the thing is you, you, these are moments memories, but we definitely have recorded that space that we're gonna remember it. And I think that that was, you know, that's the other part of it too.
Kurt:
Yeah. Yeah. It, it's, I mean, that was kind of what Lynn's whole thing was, is, is, the documentation and the, the fact that you've drawn it now, it, it sort of burns into your memory a little bit stronger. And I will remember it too. Yeah. And
Jamie:
that way, and, and I will say something that I just noticed as you're zooming up on your sketch, that you, you know, as much as you were more faithful to, to Lynn's instructions than I was, admittedly I do not see where you signed that sketch. Oh no.
Kurt:
It's right there. Oh, okay. Cut on. Ok. Ok. Cause see, sign the other
Jamie:
one. Cause I loved, I loved his reminder about that cuz it's something that I'm, I have a terrible habit of not doing. mm-hmm. Is, is signing them, dating them, you know, writing the location. especially when it's sort of in situ like that, I have to, you know, you know, rely on the memory banks, you know, more than, you know, making a scribbled note to myself.
Kurt:
Yeah, actually, I, I, I, I appreciate that. reminder too that he, that he mentioned it, it seemed like a no-brainer, but yet, it was, it, it, it makes way more sense now when, now that we're, we've left that space right now. You know, I wouldn't be able to necessarily remember it if I didn't write it down, so it's kinda like, oh yeah.
Jamie:
Right. Duh. And, and since we are live, you know, one of the comments is about having the same pocket sketchbook, and it's like, oh, yeah. I, I think that that's the whole thing, right? Is it's about the nimbleness of it. and so, you know, in this particular case, because we were going out and it was super cold, or it was cold, it was cold, colder. I mean, it wasn't super cold, but, I, I like the challenge of a small sketchbook. and, but at the same time, it's like, and I'll carry multiple sketchbooks, especially on trips like this. but that one ends up being the one that you can slip in the pocket and be really pretty discreet, kind of moving around the city. You don't have to like scream, Hey, I'm an architect, other than what you're wearing black. You know,
Kurt:
only, only when you get to this part. Yeah. When I was like, oh, yes, hey, we're all architects here,
Jamie:
right? I mean, and look at the real estate on some of those sketchbooks, you know, it's like, yeah. That, that in and of itself sometimes can be intimidating. That big, big blank page.
Kurt:
oh, true. Yeah. That's true. I like them to be a little bit smaller. This one's mine over here. Yeah, over here. And then I don't know where Jamie's is. Somewhere over here
Jamie:
buried. I think I, I think I'm the bottom that's, yeah, down at the bottom right there. Yeah.
Kurt:
Yeah. You could tell Cuz it's on an angle. Yeah. Right? Yeah. As our, as our, our friend and fellow Advance says, which he's, you know, he said, and we bumped into him on the sidewalk and he said it's his sketches have a literal and figurative twist. And Jamie likes to rotate his sketchbooks. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it, sir. So
Jamie:
that coffee, that coffee sketch, you know, coffee table book coming soon. So,
Kurt:
yeah, we, we, you couldn't get a much more positive, what's, what's the word testimonial from, from Ed, from when he said that, yeah. you should turn this into a book. Right.
Jamie:
Yeah. He was very, I mean, he was very adamant and it was like, just, and it wasn't during this sketch tour, you know, it was just sort of lunch. We kind of bumped into him a different, different part of the city. And, yeah, it was, that was, very well appreciated, I'll say. So,
Kurt:
yeah, it's, it's nice to. I mean, I mean, I'm sure, I mean, he, he's solely speaking to Jamie here, but I'm, I'm only absorbing like the, a piece of the, a piece of the credit just for the, the sake of the podcast. But, it is exciting. I'm sure it feels good to have someone like, ed who's had, you know, had such a career in architecture and, involvement in AIA and, you know, get, get a little, little tap on the shoulder for, you know, for, for doing, doing what you're doing. So, so, yeah, that there was, you know, th this tour, this little segment, this, this walking sketching thing was just one aspect of a very exciting week that we had. we've kinda discussed in the, in the, what it's gonna be the last episode. A little bit of what's gonna come out from, from the conference, but, that we're planning on, you know, uploading to the podcast for the conference. But the, other aspects that I think we wanted to talk about just a little bit more of the other days was, you know, grabbing some, oh, you know what? That's, that's right. This is our, our reminder, which I forgot to start with this, but here's. Here's, here's us. So this is, this is got, it's going to be the shout out back to Ben Kaden, who was on a few episodes ago who said, you gotta check out Blue Bottle Coffee. And there is a blue bottle right around the corner from the convention center. And so this is Jamie and I doing the, doing the coffee, taking the photo. The, the, this is like the
Jamie:
album, the album drop photo. Yeah.
Kurt:
Yeah. I, I, I might, I might be having too much of a smile on my face though. Jamie's got the perfect amount of smile for an album cover, but, yeah, maybe, maybe. I was getting excited cuz this was just ahead of our interview with the folks at SketchUp, on the expo floor. And so we decided to, well anyway, enough about. The t-shirts. Cuz I was gonna say another thing about the t-shirt,
Jamie:
Kurt, really, Kurt really does like the t-shirts and I'm proud, I'm proud of that. And, and, and I, I can say that they are, they did turn out pretty sweet. So, I'm, I'm excited as well. one, one thing I was gonna, one thing before we we jump to anything else I did want to ask, and this is sort of me flipping the script on the, the sketching part is, so what do you think your, the hardest part for you was in sort of that sort of exercise or, and you know, and maybe conversely like what was the, you know, ha has it got you started sketching more and more? Because I, I hear that, and we heard that from a lot of the folks that we got to meet, you know, that were on the tour with us.
Kurt:
right. Let's see. Well, the hardest part was probably the beginning in the, it was a little cold. and, and I, I struggle with, and this people may laugh at me now, but you know, I struggle with the details, like fine details. I like, I like to do stuff more like this, like the street perspective. We spent time talking about, very gestural sketches. Loose and loose. Loose, loose, and very abstract. and I tried to challenge myself to do a little bit of detail in this street scene where there was this sort of, Monument in the middle of the street, and then, this building that had a billion windows in it and a lot of brick and stone detail that, I, I kind of failed to, to capture. We were running out of time. I spent so much time trying to profile this, this detail thing. So, so anyway, that, I guess would say kind of my struggle. Although, I don't know, for me, I enjoy the abstract stuff, but I could see that, I could imagine, and I've, I've heard this before, that people probably don't look at, they can't read my sketches with too much, like the, you know, understanding of what is the subject matter, right? I mean, in this case, you know, with the little color, I think it helps, but, so then it kind of becomes something a little bit more like, Only that I can see. Right. And that others aren't looking for or know what to look for. And I, I don't know if that's a problem or not, but,
Jamie:
well, I think it's, it's, it goes back to our discussions about process. I mean, and, you know, and, and you know, one of the listeners is talking about sort of Yeah. You know, you know, kind of getting lost in the details a little bit. and, and, and I think that that's the whole thing is there isn't just one way to sketch and, you know, I think that, but the challenge, and this is the challenge that I do to myself, and then when, when I've taught, or you know, more, you know, less formally, but when I've led a sketch tour, and I've done that at some, some Texas conventions, you know, one of the things I try and. Encourage, even people who've been sketching quite a bit, and are, are extremely talented, is to try something a little different or to try it from a slightly different point of view for themselves. you know, in that moment it might not work out really well, but it's enough of a tidbit of, of a different approach to a sketch that, you know, I think that some of them kind of appreciated after the fact. and I think your sketch that you said, you know, at the, the, the challenging building our first site, if you look at sort of, and just if you cropped in on that kind of monument fountain kind of piece, you completely captured it, you know, I mean you completely captured it. And then if you look at the door behind it, that sort of portal in stone, you've got those two things working, you know, in scale and perspective. Exactly. Right. Right. So I think it's just when you sort of jump out to the rest of that kind of blank piece of paper and try and, you know, capture all the other elements, that's where it starts to become a bit challenging. Right. And, so, because I think for me it's like the process is a little different. what I've just found with myself now is that, you know, it's, there's about 10 to 15 seconds, you know, at the beginning of a sketch before you put that first mark on the page. where you have to say, okay, how big is my canvas? You know, what am I looking at? You know, what do I, what do I wanna capture in this particular sketch? You know, no one's giving me the assignment other than, you know, we talked about our, our assignment at the turntable. but I, I think that those are, those are the things to, you know, Kind of ask yourself, you know, kind of quietly, you know, and, and there there isn't necessarily a right answer either. Mm-hmm.
Kurt:
Yeah, no, thanks. That's a good question. I didn't think, think about that stuff as much, or haven't been, but I do, yeah. Sketching a little bit more. they're almo. They're probably more on the vein of thumbnails, at the moment, cuz I'm, I am working on a house that's been stumping me, but actually other things that I do sketch, which I kind of used to think are just random doodles, and this might be me taking advantage of, a recent trip to the Flint Institute of Arts, but they have a, a surrealism exhibit up right now. And, they re or reeducated me on a term that I hadn't heard in a, in a long time called automation or automatic drawing, right from the surrealist, group of, artists that. Kind of, you know, created surrealist and.us and, you know, the, the era that surrounds that sort of abstract painting and drawing. And I often find myself kind of doing, these sort of, I would, I guess I, I would, I'm trying to call them automatic drawings. Mm-hmm. Cause there's really no intention of what they are supposed to be. And just to see where the pen kind of moves around the page. And then can it evolve or, morph into something sometimes. And sometimes I, you know, it's, it's one of those things I try and decide like when to stop too
Jamie:
well. Right. And I think, you know, as you sort of described that, you know, not necessarily having seen them, there's an element of that. Exercise when you've asked me before about sort of the, the levies woods influence, that sort of creeps into some of my sketches when I'm dealing with, you know, oftentimes it's, it's backgrounds. It's sort of things that are kind of going on in the background of a sketch or when I'm sort of flipping from perspective to plan and, and section and things like that. there's an element of kind of automatic drawing, to those where it's, I think for me it's less automatic drawing and it's more exploration of an idea and kind of letting it flow. I mean, like kind of when you're in that zone mm-hmm. there's a, a bit of a unconscious drawing. to some of that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I, I ever kind of get fully over to the automatic drawing, but, but I, I, but I, I like it. I, I, I know what you're describing. it's very interesting to me.
Kurt:
I'll try post, post, and, and then we can, we can maybe circle back on that into a feature episode. Yeah. And I'll, I'll share some images too from, from the museum. cuz there's some really fantastic p pieces, in, in the exhibit of, yeah. Surrealist work. even from just sketches to finished paintings and things, variety of different, media. So, so yeah. So I, I think, we, we. Could go on forever.
Jamie:
It was quite a conference.
Kurt:
Yes. Cause we, we were so excited about the, well, we've had such a good time. There's still more that we'll unpack, in the next couple, I'm sure. Little bits here and there. But, it definitely was kind of like the icing on the cake to have this tour, this walking tour on the last morning, the Saturday morning. And then from there we went on and ate fantastic lunch at the waterfront, walked around some more, looked at buildings, talked about buildings with your friend Tyler, and then went to dinner. which you know, when you do all kinds of, you know, I was, as a side note, I used my phone, counted the steps. I. Over the course of the whole conference, I tallied like 37 miles of walking. Yeah. Which is, is, it's like a, a bad, is it like a, like a marathon? 26 point? Well, more than a marathon. Okay. I mean, it's not very fast marathon. Right. But, well, I guess that's the point of a marathon, but Yeah, you don't, you don't run them very quickly. Well, I don't run them at all, so, right. Yeah. But yeah, 37 miles kind of huffing it around town, sometimes fast, mostly slow,
Jamie:
and a little sketching and some coffee in between. So. That's right.
