Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!
Buy us a Coffee! Buy Some Merch to Support the Show!
Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!
Buy us a Coffee! Buy Some Merch to Support the Show!
Yes. It's, it's like Texas is like, you know, like a spot on the sun right now it feels like. So
Kurt:
is that normal or is that normal climate change?
Jamie:
I think it's, I think it's normal climate change. Normal. It's new normal. Yeah.
Kurt:
what, what we call now is
Jamie:
the new normal. It is the new normal. so yes, we are gonna have a, a series of like unforgiving, unrelenting a hundred degree days for the foreseeable future.
Kurt:
And that probably includes no rain.
Jamie:
Yeah. It's more like maybe a thunderstorm. And so you get like that little tiny bit of rain. Oh. You know, maybe,
Kurt:
the sauna
Jamie:
effect. Oh yeah. Totally. Sauna effect. Absolutely. I was, I was doing like a walking tour this past week, and it was definitely the sauna effect in, in, in every way, shape, or form.
Kurt:
Oof. Well, we'll have to talk about it would've
Jamie:
been, it would've been better to be wearing like our, our very classic tee. Yes.
Kurt:
Well, it's a black tshirt though. It's a draw heat.
Jamie:
You, you have, you have hung around me long enough to know that I do wear a lot of black.
Kurt:
Right? Yes, I know. Yeah. Well, we were, we were together first time in years, a couple weeks ago at the a i a national Conference. Yes. Conference on architecture. And so yeah, Jamie's wardrobe is quite simple.
Jamie:
Thanks. Thanks for putting it, you know, in, in very polite terms for
Kurt:
me. Yes. Well, I mean, you never had to ask me for advice on
Jamie:
this one or that one. Yeah, yeah. Conference
Kurt:
outfit. Right. It was like vice versa. No, I, I had prepared, I actually asked, I prepped with Danielle and had her gimme some, some advice. I unfortunately had to, be very selective on some of the outfits cuz of, some fantastic, like, let's, let's just call it pandemic, weight gain. That's, that's eliminated half my closet. But we won't, we don't need to talk about, we, we don't need, we
Jamie:
don't need to go down that rabbit hole. No.
Kurt:
Sorry. That's a road we, a road too far. Yeah. So, but it was,
Jamie:
it was fabulous seeing you. I mean, and spending, you know, spending some days in San Francisco with you and lots of friends. that's great. And, and we definitely, we ate well and, got to see, and even gotta see a whole lot more of the city, because of our good friend Tyler, in San Francisco as well. Yeah.
Kurt:
So free shout outs. Cause, cause I mean, he, he was generous enough to drive us around quite a bit, for some sightseeing and some great food in Chinatown and lunch. I mean, yeah, it was fantastic. It was a very exciting, I mean, in, in a nutshell, which is hard to capture a whole conference in a nutshell, but the, it was just fun to like, feel like we were, I, you know, I don't wanna say back to normal. I don't want, you know, go down that road again. But the idea of, Just kind of doing what we like doing, I guess in, in architecture and kind of meeting up in, in a conference and, and then also seeing the host city, you know? Yeah. I mean, with little excitement
Jamie:
really seeing the host city this, this year for sure. you know, in a variety of different ways, I think, you know, which, we'll, we'll try and talk about in the next couple episodes. you know, so we were talking about it in the green room before the show, the show before the show. cuz we do, we do live stream these, antics that we, we, we. We're purveying here. you know, in addition to the, the c the coffee sets, skirt shirts and, and, and merch. and, and coffee. There is coffee. I hear there's
Kurt:
coffee, Kurt. That's right, right? You, you want proof? You want proof? Look, here's the proof. Wait, I gotta shake it near the microphone. It's the case. The noise cancellation doesn't wanna take it out. yes, we have our Coffee Sketch podcast. It is up on the link down here. coffee Sketch podcast Shop, at kofi kofi k o-fi.com. Just follow the link or it's in the show notes. It's been in the show notes
Jamie:
and Well, and it's, it's also gonna be, part of the, because it's a rootless collaboration. yes. Rootless also does a variety of different collaborations. Not, not too many. There's, they are definitely selective about them, but, we've been, good friends of theirs. now I, I will say myself included, never met them, but Sean there has been really great with Kurt, in Flint. And, yeah, so we're, we're really, really darn excited, to have that and share it with everybody.
Kurt:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited. I have 24 bags in this first, first batch and I still haven't opened it yet, cuz I gotta get some over to Jamie. Yeah,
Jamie:
we're gonna, we're gonna do reveal reveal, like live reveal, yeah.
Kurt:
Mm. At some, at some point. hazelnut and
Jamie:
chocolate notes.
Kurt:
Mm oh yeah, yeah. Oh that's right. I forgot. I was gonna read these notes real quick. so it's a, a light medium roast from Brazil and Yeah, the tasting, the flavors here we profiles are hazelnut rich milk, chocolate granola, and raisin, which are gonna be. Interesting. I'm really excited now. Ooh. I can smell, I can get, get a little smell through the, you know, the little thing in there.
Jamie:
Yeah. This is like the scratch and sniff episode. So
Kurt:
it's pretty good. Actually. I could, I could smell the hazelnut and, and chocolate flavoring, but yeah. We'll see. Sorry, now I'm getting way off, way off the beaten path here. So our
Jamie:
show has sound effects, you know, in addition to, you know, sound in addition to Charlie's just, you know, good little intros and outros for us.
Kurt:
So, so, so we did say that this is gonna be a little short, a short episode. A little tiny recap of a piece of the conference and then we're gonna try and well, we're also being recording a, a little, a second episode cuz you can't just capture the conference in one, one beat. and, you know, we are also. Speaking of the conference is we're also going to be recording with our good friends at ARCA Speak podcast, a, a collaborative episode
Jamie:
for one of their, for their, they've got a big milestone coming up. Yeah, I mean, we spent a lot of, we spent a lot of time with them, in the conference and that was fun. there's some photo bombing, you know, you know, that, that Kurt's, Kurt, I've discovered Kurt does really, you know, some, some fun photography tricks, to, to photo bomb some individuals and sort of capture them all in, in one. But yes, they have ep, their episode 300 coming up. and so we will be collaborating with them on that and that'll be super fun.
Kurt:
It's, it's quite an honor and an honor, yeah. Absolutely. Be, could be the 300th, or be on for the three cuz they don't often interview people or do something like this. So this'll be a little special, you know, for both of us. And, you know, for me, I mean, they're, they're one of the first, I think they are the, well, I, I can't remember now, but there's no, there's no evidence, you know, of the first podcast audio, architecture related podcasts that I listened to. And going back to, I, I couldn't even tell you. It's gotta be, I was probably a listener since under 100 episodes from like 50 years. I don't know. It's yeah, 300. That's, they've, they've been doing it a long time.
Jamie:
Oh yeah. And there's some sketch and there's some sketching involved. So I'm hoping that some of that, I, I did see like a, a post pop up, from them, sort of suggesting that, you know, somebody might have been looking through some of their old sketchbooks and so I was getting excited, so I don't wanna say anymore. Yep. We'll see, we'll
Kurt:
get, yes. And and that will be coming, coming up soon. And then, what was the other thing? Oh yeah, I guess. That's all I, that's all, all the, the, it's, it's been a lot that has gone on in the past couple of weeks that I'm like, oh, let's recap everything right now. No. So we're gonna focus on, a little piece of, the tail end of the conference for, for this little conversation. But did we first want to talk about,
Jamie:
well, the biggest, we wanna, well, we wanna definitely talk about the biggest news from the conference that like, oh, that, yeah, definitely wanna drop that
Kurt:
in here. So you wanna do that before or after we talk about our.
Jamie:
Our coffee. Oh, okay. I I I mean, if we're gonna go there too, that'd be awesome. Yes. So, so my, my, I've got the CU Cuve, the West Pole, an Austin Original, and it's, it's got kind of a, a, a smoky flavor. so it's a little bit on the more medium roast, so, but it's, I'm loving it. Yeah, it's good. Cool.
Kurt:
That's, and yourself? That's a new one, the West Pole. That's a new one that I haven't had seen. You can you have I am actually, the fun, fun part about buying a a bulk order of, branded coffee is that I did get a free sample. Ah, it did come with something extra and there was a, a small unlabeled bag of, I don't know, I forget what, the rootless guys are doing, if it's going to be something coming out. but it was a Burundi origin, roast. I think it's a little, I don't have the bag anymore, I think. I think it's already gone. And so I don't, I mean, it had no, it had no notes on it anyway, so I mean, it's like literally. Unlabeled. It was pretty cool. You know, it's like one of those, like stealthy small, it was a small, small bag, you know, small batch. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a, yeah, it's a very, it felt very, I mean, Jamie would've loved it cuz it's all black. Fits his wardrobe quite well. Yeah. Yeah. But the, yeah, it's a, a Burundi blend. It was very good. it's now gone and, so now I have to get this coffee sketch podcast over to Jamie so that I can hurry up and drink some of that. But yeah, so that's, that's, that's what I got going on. And so now the big news, do you wanna talk about the big news? The big news
Jamie:
is the person that we learned in episode one 17, who doesn't drink coffee, Okay. but, who we are both big fans of, and very proud of, and excited for, part of the aias National Conference on Architecture and Design. And it is, it's the biggest one on, on, on architecture and design, in the country. part of it is there's some business sessions and so, you know, our member organization is, about 96,000 architects and allied professionals. and. Others, in kind of our, you know, lovers of architecture, and professionals in the architecture field. so as a member organization, you have, different, you know, leadership categories and people who are kind of leading the organization in, in strategic dimensions. And, you know, just there's, you know, there's, there's a lot that goes on. and a lot of it's in parallel, but, you know, the, the leadership is, is led and the board of directors is led by the AI national president. And so they come into office as, sort of first vice president, president-elect for a year, and then they transition up the following year to a i a president. and so our friend, Evelyn will be. was elected in San Francisco, and we are just super excited.
Kurt:
If I had little sound effect buttons for the, you know, like, yeah, that's, I'm horns things like
Jamie:
I'm, I'm looking for that on the keyboard. I
Kurt:
would be blasting, you know, blasting that button, you know, right now. But, yeah, we're excited. yeah, we, we were happy to have Evelyn on. recently on, yeah, episode one 17. Although we were not allowed to talk at all about the ca the campaign.
Jamie:
and so, which, which is funny because people said they listened to that episode and they're like, they were fully expecting us to go into it and that we never did. And they're like, did you guys know she was running for like office?
Kurt:
It's like, no. Yeah. Right. Yes, I remember those. We, we to,
Jamie:
we totally
Kurt:
knew. Yes. I wish, oh, you know, it'd be funny. Hold on. Do I still have it? I think I deleted it. I had this little popup note. I, I deleted it. Oh, was the
Jamie:
note, the note to yourself, like, don't talk about the
Kurt:
campaign. I wish I didn't delete it. It would've been great to pop up on the screen right now. Yeah. So it literally said, do not mention anything about the campaign or, it was very explicit. and we needed that. It was so much, and now we, you know, now we can, We'd say whatever we want now. Yeah. cat's out of the bag. But it was really exciting. It was one of those things that, I don't know. I, I've never, I don't think I've ever been excited this excited for, that the election process at the conference since Well, well, any time really. and not, not, you know, nothing against all those were ran before, but I think, you know, our cohort, you know, Evelyn is, a, a friend, but also someone we became friends with because of our involvement in the Young Architect's Forum, as we talked about on the episode. And, and even with Ben Caden on his episode. and, and to, to kind of just be even like on the edge of the. The nerves. I mean, just being around at the conference bumping into Evelyn and Janine, who was, you know, her, I don't know, just keeping everything on the tracks, you know, like all, all going on. And, and then the, then the, the moment, you know, you found out like, you know, she won in like the, the sort of collective sigh of relief that, that everybody sort of, it started to permeate, you know, the, the energy throughout the, the conference center and all that stuff. But, so I'm excited. I'm glad.
Jamie:
Yeah. And, and at this point I'm, I'm gonna definitely, like, we don't do this a lot, but it's like we do have some podcast, you know, friends, and some of which we got to meet at the conference. and we sort of direct folks over to those from time to time. But, But practice disrupted, Janine, like interviews Evelyn, and yeah, in their most recent episode, and it's, it is absolutely worth listening to. yeah. You know, not to give it all away, but I think it's, you know, for those, at least in the architecture community, you know, folks know that, that Evelyn ran the year before, and was, was unsuccessful. and you know, that, you know, she talks about that and is very kind of open about kind of what that felt like and, and kind of decisions about why she wanted to kind of move forward again. And, and what that took, from all of her sort of team and friends and, her cohort, you know, for sure. to, you know, help her get to where, where she is now, and, and, and, and her herself kind of getting herself to where she is now, kind of in, in thinking about kind of pursuing that. So it was, it's a great conversation. it's a great conversation about sort of, you know, you know, challenging yourself, I guess. and Right, right. You know, in, in a, and, and, and deciding that you really do want it. you know, and I think, you know, she's, you know, once she decided she really wanted it, and. And leaned into all that. I think it's, it's just, we're just excited. So, and, and like you said, there was, you know, absolute nerves and, and kind of being there for that. and, and, and seeing some of those moments was, was really, really pretty special.
Kurt:
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I recently also listened to that episode and it's a, it's a, it's a much better summation than I could, than I could give about the ups and downs and the highs and lows and, and, and, and the extended process that she's been through. Oh, yeah. And so it's, it's a lot of fun to, if you're interested, you know, I mean, I definitely, like, as Jamie said, go check that out.
Jamie:
Well, and, and also for the, for the AIA architects and members who are like, how does this election thing work? Like, they actually, like, it's probably one of the most succinct. and there's some, some giggles in there too. or at least there was giggles on my part, of listening to them try and describe. The bizarre electoral college that is the aia. So, with that being said, yeah, we can, we can talk, we can talk about some other things, but congratulations, Evelyn. this is, our, our, our Congrats again to you. this was, definitely, an, an exciting thing to see. Yeah,
Kurt:
thanks. Thanks for letting us be in the, in the, in the same space while this is all going down. It's very exciting. So yes. Cheers. Cheers to Evelyn. We'll have to, well, she's gonna get a mug and not a, a batch of coffee.
Jamie:
Yeah, yeah. We'll have to figure out. We have to figure it was gonna be a batch of coffee, but we'll have to figure out what that is,
Kurt:
so. Yeah. Yeah. So luckily, you know, there's other, other things that, other gifts o opportunities and concepts. So, here, let me, let me share our sketches real quick and, you know, We've done. I mean, I, the big news is that, and there's definitely more about the conference that we will be talking about. It's, it's gonna kind of drag out for a couple, I mean, not drag out in a bad way, but, you know, stretch across, span across a few episodes because we had a lot of, we had a really exciting interview. So maybe this is, just a quick warmup or pre preemptive sort of, heads up, I guess to audience members. We, sat down with the, the, the folks at SketchUp, the software company that, I would imagine very many people are familiar with. I know Jamie and I are both, we were counting the years and collectively it, it, starts to date us pretty quick. Yeah. How many years we've been using this software, but, They've got a lot of, so they, they invited us to have a a basically we recorded content with them that's gonna come out in probably two, two episodes. And so, we'll, we'll, we'll let you know when that all happens. And, you know, I'm, I'm tying together some of the editing and, we have to keep some stuff out cuz they have some cool new stuff that we can't even talk about. Right. And so Well, and, and I'll just, we'll save that for another even farther down the road when that doesn't occur.
Jamie:
Well, and, and, and just to sort of, you know, kind of tie it to, you know, beyond us being sort of users for a long time and sort of fans of the product, is that, you know, as Kurt often says, it's, you know, the, the premise of this coffee sketch podcast, is looking at old tech and new tech. and, and the process of it and sort of keeping the spirit of things. so, you know, you know, watch some of the social channels, we're gonna tease out a few little clips from, conversations with them. and, and I think that, you know, as we get those, those episodes edited together, it's, it's, it's, it was a really, really generous to them and we really enjoyed it. talked to, you know, multiple people that they had brought to the conference. and so it was, it was, it was, it was a lot of fun. Yeah.
Kurt:
And, and, so that's as, as, as I was mentioning. I guess that's how I, what we're gonna talk about in this episode is sort of, It almost like the tail end of the conference, but then more will kind of come out and, anyway, maybe I don't even need to talk about it too much, but,
Jamie:
well, and I was gonna say, you know, if you did have that like celebration button, like, like this would be the, the, the opportunity to use it one more time is, five years ago, like this week, we were in New York. Yeah. And, and that's when we came up with the idea for this podcast.
Kurt:
Oh yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, Jamie. You, yeah, you're always remembering that, that. The, the anecdotal, yeah, that's right. Five years ago, New York conference. Sorry, I can't say any, I'm, you kind of caught me off guard. I, I did spend quite a bit of time, keeping praise upon you at the conference for, you know, in making this whole podcast idea an enjoyable and, fun, fun excursion that we do together. That doesn't feel like work ever. So no. Five more years. Five more years. Five
Jamie:
more. At least. At least.
Kurt:
Yeah. yeah. 122 episodes. So, and, it's going strong.
Jamie:
Well, and I, and I thought that it would, you know, saying that about kind of going back, you know, going back in time, is it, it's related to these sort of sketches we're gonna talk about today too, I think a little bit. the, The, the one on the left, so June is pride month. and so, when we were out in San Francisco, there were some, some sites that I was sort of excited to go see, especially one in particular where I'd done a design competition. and so the sketch on the left is actually, from, you know, five, six, almost six years ago. and, and then, and then the one on the right was, the, and, and this is a trigger word for Kurt now, this is, was from the airport, on my way, on my way, way outta San Francisco, the, the Harvey Milk Terminal, I think terminal one or two, at, S F O. So
Kurt:
don't ask about which terminal. It was not the one that I flew outta. No. But I did eventually get to fly out of Yeah, a lot of flight,
Jamie:
flight fund. I think Gensler Gensler did the, the architectural interiors for, for the terminal. and, it was, it was a great space. and, you know, named for Harvey Milk, who is, you know, synonymous with San Francisco and, for a variety of different reasons. but, they definitely had, a wonderful sort of homage to him and sort of memorial wall, for all the, all those who were coming in and out of that terminal. and, and so I had a little bit of time before my flight and was able to, to do kind of a, a literal quick coffee sketch in situ, which was great. Oh, that's
Kurt:
cool. Yeah, I wish, I wish I had flown outta that terminal. I could, I, I know when we drove past it, I mean, it hasn't, it's a very, very minimal facade and, and, and it was very definitely something I, I was, I wish I had been able to, you know, airports are something that, you know, you, the kind of architecture that you don't get to experience until you're, Until you have to use that space. And, and, and sometimes it, for us, maybe, I don't know, maybe other fans of architecture too. It's like if you don't have to use that airport terminal, it's almost like, like dangling the carrot and you can't, that, that you can't reach because it's like, oh, it's just right there. But I have nothing to do with that building because I'm not on that airplane. So I saw the facade as we drove past and then, you know, that was the extent of my experience. So your sketch kind of nice. a nice, callback, I guess, or, or education for me on what the interior was like, which the, the line work, which is, I I did notice that you pulled out the sign pen. This, it, during the conference a few times. Aside from the, the. The pilot pen to get a little bit heavier weight on the line. So there it is. It was nice to see that this sketch does also have some of that, you know, heavier weight line, thick, you know, a heavy, a heavier, thicker, wider, you know, all the descriptions of, of, you know, what that kind of pen can do, you know, compared to the sort of thin and lightness that the, that your pilot pen kind of co common tool of, more common tool of the pilot pen. But,
Jamie:
well, and, and with that sketch too was it's, it's a very bright space, sort of what you were talking about, sort of the minimalist of the architecture. it's a very bright, I mean, just really inviting. I mean, you know, it, it's just, it's a, it's a, it's a calm kind of space. I mean, for. You know, terminals, you know, I, I'm thinking of like railroad terminals and things that are sort of classic architecture kind of spaces, the hustle and bustle of industry and people moving through a space. And there's certainly that with this terminal. But, I really kind of appreciated kind of, you know, some of the, the aesthetics of the space. you know, it's definitely got the idea of movement and travel and all that kind of stuff. And you see those tried to capture a spot, where I could sit, and sketch a little bit more comfortably. And, you know, kind of enjoy the space a little bit. I, you know, I definitely had a little bit of time to, you know, between, between my flight. So, you know, the, the perspective lines, kind of a one point perspective, kind of at, you know, kind of skewing that one point off to the side just a little bit. but yeah, it was a, I really enjoyed the space a lot and, and definitely wanted to capture it. And then also because, you know, it was named, you know, for who it was named for, and in, in honor of him, I, I really felt like it was important to kind of capture that as part of a memory for myself of the trip, and kind of hearkening to the, the work that I had done. you know, just in really kind of a design exploration for a site, you know, architects do d competitions for a variety of different reasons. and, you definitely don't always do them to win them. and it's, it's sometimes getting yourself out of that, comfort zone, to, you know, think about a project differently, or to bring a project that you know, that you would aspire to doing, you know, into, into the, the realm of possibility. there's a reality to it and, and that Harvey Milk Plaza, was certainly, one that I, that I was excited to do, and glad that I did, and then glad that I got to visit it. and kind of learn a little bit from Tyler, about kind of what the history of, of its post competition life has been. I've been read a couple news reports, but it was, it was nice to kind of be in that space and kind of, you know, hear a little bit more about it.
Kurt:
Yeah. We, and we, we talked about that competition entry, the, the Harvey Milk Plaza. I, I don't remember the episode number, but it was a little while back and it was, it was a good conversation. the concept of competitions, like you said. And sometimes I would say if the mindset is not worrying about winning, then it's, it's, it becomes then about the exploration of an idea of ideas and. Things that, you know, still have constraints, right? Because the competition requirements are the constraints that you have to design to, rather than say, a brainstorming session or something like that. And then with, with staff or clients or, you know, friends, you know, and so, so you know, the constraints. I think constraints are still useful for us to, to be able to force or, force maybe not the best word, but, Encourage a, a, a solution that that might not be there without those constraints. Right. Is, is, is how I kind of approach an interest in competitions, right? Like the, I've definitely been lately sh sending you over like different competitions that there's quite a few, I'm surprised how many competition, prospects are out there right now and as busy as everyone is in this industry, that makes, maybe that's why I'm surprised, but there's. There's something that you and I have been kicking around trying to maybe go out, you know, go after and use that as a, as a encouragement to kind of challenge, our own, design, capabilities and push them a little bit farther and into a new realm and, and also kind of extend our own collaboration like this podcast. And,
Jamie:
well, and, and, and along those lines too is it's, it's both of us have, what you described as an interest. but at the same time as a subject matter, I think both of us really like public spaces. and we, we like that sort of engagement of, it's not the political realm, it's just sort of the public realm and sort of the dialogue that, that those spaces in between kind kind of sometimes, you know, create. and. And, and along those lines, I think this, this particular competition, you know, was a, a lot about that. it, it was, it's a very kind of busy, kind of multimodal intersection, corner site, in San Francisco. And, you know, there are some small monuments and memorialization of Harvey Milk there, you know, talking about hope, you know, and, and change and things like that. But, there was an effort to kind of see that site that, that public realm, as a, you know, a location to kind of memorialize him and sort of the, the amazing speeches that he would give, as kind of a gay activist and, you know, political leader. I mean, he was, he was the first, you know, openly gay politician to. To be elected in California. and, and I think in as part of that, he saw himself as, as a, or he saw himself in, at least in a role where he could kind of advocate for others to kind of, you know, it's that kind of baton kind of idea, you know, of, you know, those that come after you. Can you, can you, can you jam your foot in the door and, and hold it open for them? You know, you, you made it through and instead of kind of slamming it shut or, or forgetting about holding it open, it's, you know, can you leave it open for others? and so this space is kind of intended to, to be a bit about that. while still functioning. I mean, there's a, kinda a tram line that's below grade and, there's sidewalks that kind of crisscross it, and then there's another, another tram across the street and streetcar kind of tram. so yeah, there's, there's a variety of different things kind of going on all in this space that's not terribly big. And then there's, and then there's residence. I mean, there's people living kind of, you know, right adjacent to this block. So, it was a, a nice design challenge. And I think those are the types of projects, you know, art wise and public realm wise and sort of the intersection of those two things. that I think will probably be, you know, finding a way for this podcast to kind of. you know, elaborate towards,
Kurt:
yeah, I, you're right on. I do think we are, I like, I do like public spaces, which probably was why San Francisco was a fun host city. and, and our desire to get outside is, it's not just our desire. Many architects were itching to get out, out of buildings and out there into the, into the public realm. But the, yeah. So I think, there's an interesting segue. Or, or, or, or a tie-in that you made with the, you know, jamming the foot in the door and holding it open is what, the, the final keynote, just Jacinda ar ardine. Right? The, former Prime prime Minister of New Zealand, said the same thing about, you know, creating a sense of equity, and, and inclusion for, for more voices. So, yeah. Is it, I think, I think on that note, we can call
Jamie:
it a wrap. Yeah. This was great. this is the, the beginning of, a multi episode recap, so thanks, Kurt.
