115 - Coffee Sketch in the Wild! Boston Edition

Kurt: 0:32

Hey Jamie. How you doing?

Jamie: 0:35

Good. Can I just say that I really do love that intro you. I mean, oh, thanks.

Kurt: 0:42

I, I, unlike you, I still like it

Jamie: 0:45

too. Yeah. I do. I mean, oh, no.

Kurt: 0:49

Talking about before the official intro. Yes. Jamie doesn't like many sketches that he, once they're out, they're. They, they fall out of grace, I suppose.

Jamie: 1:02

Yeah. When they're, when they're out in the wild, it's just like, you kind of Mm. It's like onto, onto the next one, so.

Kurt: 1:12

Well, thanks. The intro, that's,

Jamie: 1:14

that's my, that's, that's my lyrical drop for the day. So

Kurt: 1:16

I was gonna say that, you know, the intro. Makes me look young and thin and, I, I feel neither of those things anymore.

Jamie: 1:26

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, we didn't even do it in the intro, intro, like the, the show. We've wore the show, but like, for those of you who know, curtain is orange pants, apparently the orange pants are just, you know, a thing of the past. So, I just, it went

Kurt: 1:39

towell though, so they're gonna be someone else's orange pants. Well,

Jamie: 1:43

and you know, and that's the whole thing is like, it's just, you know, it was, it was a way to like, I'm here, like showing up to the party or the keynote, or the staff meeting or the whatever. Kurt was ready. Like so was, so was, so was Vegas the last like really harrah for the orange pants? Yeah. Okay. Yep. We'll just leave it in Vegas.

Kurt: 2:13

So, yeah, pretty much you know, they also represent. Sort of a, a, what do you call it? A, a transition in career. Oh. You know, like not,

Jamie: 2:29

they weren't specifically purchased

Kurt: 2:32

for, you know, the place I used to work. But, you know, that, that place I used to work, the firm I left to go off on my own was a fan of. In in the brain. Oh, oh. And so I didn't necessarily intentionally let go, you know, burn them

Jamie: 2:51

in pathy or something. well, that is

Kurt: 2:54

goodwill. Them. And said like, let's, like, let's kind of move past orange for a little while.

Jamie: 3:00

That is not where I thought this story was going. So, oh. So, as we have a sip from our cups, so what's the coffee of the day and the curtain D household, even though Dee's not the coffee purveyor that Kurt

Kurt: 3:17

is. Non non participant. yeah, the, I'm still, I'm still working through my, Starbucks Italian roast. Okay. And I gotta say, I'm gonna try and do this as politely as possible. I don't know if I'm a huge fan. It's, let's say, let's, let's say it's not one of those, it's not necessarily a daily. Okay. I think the, it's a very dark roast, right? And. And you know, you know how I can tell? Well, aside from certain color and labels on the bag. Right. But I use the grinder, right? Like a little hand grinder. Yeah. The, the darker roast. Cuz they must roast them longer or something. I don't know what they do. I, I still haven't figured that part out. But let's just, the beans are softer, like, like they grind a lot. So like a light roast, it's a harder, it's a harder beam.

Jamie: 4:21

Interesting.

Kurt: 4:22

It, it grinds much, it's more difficult to grind. And I thought, I thought that was interesting. I started to pick up on the, you know, so mediums in the middle mm-hmm. and the, and the dark roasts are fairly easy to grind. They kind of, you know, and then the light roasts are a little more stiff, like,

Jamie: 4:41

like a, like a more complex flavor maybe. Is there, is there a correlation?

Kurt: 4:48

I don't know. Well, you know,

Jamie: 4:50

well, and I mean complex flavor, like, not like, like bitter or darker or heavier, but I mean like has more like when, when we've talked about some of the roasts recently, like we're talking about citrus notes and all these different kind of flavor profiles and stuff, and I'm just sort of, as you're saying that I'm wondering. Do the, the, the beans that are harder to grind, do they have more complex flavors? Hmm. Maybe a question to think about.

Kurt: 5:24

Yeah, I, I think I will. You know, the, the funny thing, the last thing I'll say about this Italian roast that Dan Danielle's like, is something burning When I, when I make a, a, a cup of coffee and have it, you know, steaming away next to her, it's like, is something on fire So anyway. So anyways, Danielle maybe not a fan either. Not a fan. Yeah.

Jamie: 5:56

What about you? I am finishing up the little city. The second one that I had gotten the, Kangi. which is the apricot toffee, and blackberry flavored. And I, I'm, I'm kind of a fan. I, I, I'll say that this is one I'm gonna get again, but I think my next one from Little City, I'm gonna have to go back to some of the old favorites. Like, like Grackle? Yeah. Grackle. They just, it's, they've got that one.

Kurt: 6:30

yeah, I think the next bag is gonna be, our old friends at Rootless as well, so. Yep. You know, I, you know, I'm actually intrigued. I don't, I don't know if I'll do it right away though. You know, rootless has a dark roast, they call it dark. Yes. And now I kind of wanna go from Italian roast to dark and compare

Jamie: 6:50

dark. Well, you should, you should. You should. I mean, as a pure experiment for this show. All right, I'll do it. Yeah.

Kurt: 6:58

Kiss my arm. That wasn't very hard.

Jamie: 7:01

No, it was not hard at all. Thank you. You wanted talk about still? Yeah, I'm, I'm still processing this whole, like, orange is now not a color in your life, so. Well, but it's okay. And, and it's totally okay because I had a discussion in our office, for those of us who understand Texas, we had a, a project come through and everything was fine and the community was really happy with the, the work that was done on it liked the concepts. But they, they said, you know, before we present it to anybody else, could you maybe change the color? And so they asked someone on my team like, would you change it to maroon? And, and it, cuz it was, it was like the, it was a red, it was like a, like a, an off tone red, not, not a USC maroon. Right. That's so, yeah. That's more cardinal, right? So like, more like, you know, de Dakota ring. You know, so I'm in Texas. Mm-hmm. I am an Aggie architect. and so when you hear the word maroon and you've gone spent any time in College Station, right. You're, you like, it just, you can see the color, you can't miss it. it's like mentally emblazoned in your brain. and so that's, that's what I was explaining to this team member was like, who's not from Texas? I. You know, I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if anybody like pulls, could this red be more maroon? They're probably an Aggie. An Aggie, or there's probably someone has said, you know, what would be really nice for this is, so anyhow, yeah, that's my, that's my color. select selection story.

Kurt: 8:55

I mean, stick to what you know and love, right? Sure. So Harold, I gotta switch screens, but let's dive into, so I don't know, I, I don't have them in a great order. Well, maybe I do, but. You wanna start left to right as we do in this country.

Jamie: 9:16

it, it, pan? Yeah, you can just pan. I mean, I just say that, yeah, so we were talking about that we were trying to maybe pull off like, a podcast last week. While I was in Boston, and over the weekend, but the, that didn't happen. But I did do a lot of sketches, so that's great. got to point at some maps and do some presentations. oh, oh, oh, oh, oh yeah. Like that. Yeah. Like, so, actually attended a national conference for Main Street America. and they had. You know, 2000 attendees, which is pretty good. one of their largest conferences I think. but you know, people from all over the country, who were doing, preservation based economic development. and Texas had a really good contingent. And, you know, pre-conference, the architects and designers who are sort of my counterparts, from other states doing similar work. We met and had sort of two days of tours and education sessions and. You know, camaraderie and all that good stuff. and so I got to present, a session on sort of design professionals on Main Street and sort of the development process. my subtitle for this was sort of to architect or not to architect, but it was great. And and there I'm pointing at how big Texas is relative to the, new England Northeast region

Kurt: 10:38

Oh yeah, I see that now. Yeah. Cool.

Jamie: 10:41

Yeah, so it was, it was sort of fun because like I pointed out like, hey, here's where Austin is, where we're located. and then picked up three like. Major cities up there, New York, Boston and Washington DC and ironically Washington DC was on the border of Texas, so the southern border. So just sort of worked out that way.

Kurt: 11:07

But do you have a train that goes from Boston

Jamie: 11:09

to dc? No, there, there is absolutely no trains. There're, there're, or let's say, is

Kurt: 11:16

South Texas to, Northeast Texas?

Jamie: 11:19

No, it's, it's a lot of, it's not all horses. It's a lot of cars. So, just a lot of, a lot of cars.

Kurt: 11:25

Yeah. I mean, I can remember if we go back to, A few seasons ago when I visited the great state for the Texas Conference in Galveston, where you land in Houston and then you sit in traffic for a while. yeah. There's more lanes of traffic on the way to Galveston from Houston then I could imagine on Earth. And yet they didn't take

11:53

you

Jamie: 11:53

anywhere. and, and, and not only that, but you and I. after you landed, then we, we decided to like really go on an adventure and go pick up Ilia. Oh yeah. And, and continue to drive around like downtown Houston. Like good barbecue, lots of fun museums. And then, and then made the trek to Galveston. So yeah, we know how to do, we know, know how to do it right.

Kurt: 12:17

But I've never, if it wasn't for you, I mean, we literally sat. We, we went one exit past, turn around, one exit back, one exit past, turn around, one exit back like three or four times. Really? So it is what it felt like. But isn't that what we did? We like circled cuz we couldn't get the right, I don't know. It was a crazy, we,

Jamie: 12:45

we were trying to get to Elia's Hotel to drop. Yes. Yeah, it was a little bit

Kurt: 12:52

and, and you just we just couldn't,

Jamie: 12:54

yeah. Well there was, it was, it was Houston and it was Texas and it was construction and Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty funny. Yeah. Nevertheless, this is the reason why I have no desire to live in Houston.

Kurt: 13:09

Your patience, your patience was excellent.

Jamie: 13:12

Well, thank you.

Kurt: 13:12

I appreciate that. Cause I, I dunno if I could have handled it

Jamie: 13:17

So that's, that, that's why we did barbecue before that, so Oh,

Kurt: 13:21

was, yeah, I was pretty content afterward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really missing that

Jamie: 13:26

barbecue though. So gotta go back. So anyhow, yeah, so the conference was fun. the sketch there on the, on, on the screen, that was in Roslindale, which is. Like I, I'll sort of refer to it as sort of an exce. Boston, but it was one of the first urban main programs like Urban Main Streets in the Main Street Network. So like 40 years ago it became a main street, city, or main street community. and kind of born out of the experiment of, of main streets in the US sort of as a, as an organization and as preservation based economic development. But, That was our first day. We did, the architect group toured it, with the original manager, which was fantastic, as well as the new manager. And then did some education sessions in this building that's in the sketch, which I just, I really loved it. and, and what was fun was like, we're in this building and like, I don't know if you've had this experience, but. When you see a building and you're like, this is a really neat building. Like there's, like, I love, like it's been renovated and all this kind of stuff, and it's, it, it's, it's a public library, but, I'm like, for some reason it seems really familiar and I'm like in a, in a, in a community, in a city I've never been in before. And you know, in this particular case, hadn't done a lot of research on where we were gonna be tour. And so while I'm in the building, I Google the building, I'm in and sure enough there's a Metropolis Arc article that pops up on an architecture firm that did a rehabilitation of this just a few years before. And it was great. you know, great description of the, of the work and, but yeah, kind of a 1960s space age. library that they renovated and did a really, I think, a really great job. So does it fit

Kurt: 15:30

into

Jamie: 15:31

the GOGI theme? It, it, it's a bit googie. Yeah, A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. the, the, the central core, it's basically a large semi-circle. It, it from the street, it feels more complete, complete circle. Yeah, but it's a, it's a semicircle. it really captures the corner, cited really, really well. So that whole glass piece is really responding to it. to the left is where they did a lot of renovation work, that was clearly more modern. Some education classrooms and things like that to that side. That's where we were. And then to the right of the sketch, they activated some exterior space. And so you're sort of seeing that little fence area there. so that was kind of fun. it was, neat project, you know, for a historic district, you know, blending ages and times and all that stuff. So I liked it. Yeah, it. It's, and we used, we used the train and we used the train to get there, so, you know. Oh,

Kurt: 16:33

excellent. The T, right? Yes, yes. Boston T, right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's nice. I mean, it has, the sketch is, captures a, a fairly simple sort of semicircle or this arc in plan, you know, curving facade looks like there's a little dome in the. And sometimes those simple gestures for a design are the way to go versus trying to sort of collide more things together to, to generate some more interest or over maybe over overexcited

Jamie: 17:11

interest. Well, and, and the thing of, I think that I was trying to capture with the sketch too was, you know, I, because I appreciated this for it being a library on a corner, And the form that it is, is that the glass that's sort of curbing right there at the corner is the main stack space. So it, it really is sort of reflection of indoor and outdoor and so tried to, tried to get a sense of that with the sketch relatively quickly. you know, the lights are sort of on the pinwheel back towards the center. so it, it, I think it works. I think it works. It, it works as a, as a memory mark for me, of kind of that experience. So that's, that's a good thing.

Kurt: 18:00

Yeah. And, and so, let's see, what else did you want to touch on?

Jamie: 18:05

Yeah, I mean, Like, like maybe, maybe this is the swag that we need to consider. I know, I know. Like, yeah. So I thought this was pretty clever. So one of the things that they do for our Main Street conference, is. Like I said, there's, you know, there's attendees from communities all over the country, who are coming to this for education and ideas and camaraderie and making connections. and then there's a series of professionals that are there, like myself, you know, from different disciplines. And so what we do ahead of time is we're asked to kind of sign up for, you know, basically a two hour block. and they, what they, they call it is doctor downtown. and people can show up, and not schedule an appointment with

Kurt: 18:52

the doctor. Oh, like a constituents. Yeah. And

Jamie: 18:55

get a little feedback. Yeah. A little, little feedback. You know, they've got a little issue or they've got some ideas that, of something like, you know, where should we go? What should we do, you know, in our community, kind of explain the problem. and so, they have these nice little tablets of. You know, all brand That's cool and stuff, which I thought was pretty clever. yeah. So I, I did it for two hours. They also have lab coats for us, so there was like, it was like, it was like a cosplay moment, like of architect of downtown. it was very strange. so we need

Kurt: 19:23

coffee, sketch, barista, jackets.

Jamie: 19:26

Ooh, no, no, not barista. We need like smocks. Smocks, yes. Aprons. Mocking. I'm, I'm, there's, there's some, there's, there's, yeah,

Kurt: 19:40

we'll put a pin in that one. But the, I like the idea too, and I think that's a, I think a useful, a useful, amount or what do you call it? requirement or, I don't know, request of your time and. And then the value to the constituent groups, say the city's municipalities that are kind of there trying to gain some ideas and things like that. Yeah. Or main

Jamie: 20:04

streets. Well, right. I mean, and it's, and, and even for myself, I mean, it's an opportunity to talk to people from an, another community, another state, you know? so I think someone wants to go outside.

Kurt: 20:17

Eh, she's all right. She's a.

Jamie: 20:19

Oh yeah, I have one of those. Yeah, because

Kurt: 20:22

right here if I move my finger

Jamie: 20:25

is the jar of, of the treats. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kurt: 20:29

And so this one will, I'll open the door anyway, as an aside. I'll open the, oh, well, Danielle's got it covered. Open the door. Look what's, look, look. Oh, that's the fake out, you

Jamie: 20:43

see? Yeah. Like, like, like you open the door. Yeah. Like, she's like, but the jars right there like,

Kurt: 20:52

Look at this. This sad, sad dog. Yeah, she's, she's, she's like this. Yeah. Come on. Show, show me the money. Oh, you know, the life, life of a dog could be worse. Huh? So, do you want to, there's a few more sort sketches from the week, one of which is, the M l K memorial. Yes, if you wanna talk about

Jamie: 21:19

that. Yeah. So, and I, I apologize for not remembering the artist's name. We'll put it in the show notes. but this just opened, and so this is in downtown Boston, in the park. it's quite large. You can see in the sketch pencil sketch this time. So, not ink sketch. and, and that was purposeful on my part cuz I really, it's, it's a large bronze statue and I really did not feel like I was going to. Render this well with just cross-hatching, in ink. And so had a very small pencil with me, which you can see there in the sketch as well. and th this sculpture unfortunately, has been a little bit controversial, but it's, I like the idea of it that the name of it is called the Embrace. and it's, Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King, in a, it's a depiction of a famous photo of them in a sense where they're kind of holding onto one another, kind of giving each other a hug. and, but the, they're, their heads are not visible in this sculpture. And so it's a, you know, it's kind of a, you know, idea of a, I guess, universality. but from this, I think what, what the controversy is, is that from certain vantage points, as a three-dimensional piece, like. This headless sculpture doesn't look good. And I'll just, oh, I'll leave it there. I'm not gonna say much more about that. but from, but from other vantage points, especially this particular one that I did the sketch from, I think it's pretty amazing. you know, there's. lots of people who wanna interact with it, take pictures with it. I think the scale of it feels right for the space. you know, the, there you see a really skeletal urban backdrop. behind it. Mm-hmm. So it, it's, it's on, kind of, on the edge, edge ish of the park. but I, I love it. I mean, I, I mean, but that's the thing is I, I'm, I love sculpture and seeing things like this live as opposed to in a picture, I think is, is the way to really, you know, judge it or be critical of it.

Kurt: 23:35

Well, for sure. I mean, we've talked about that in the past quite a bit, is kind of withholding, A, a full assessment until seeing something with your own eyes. And it's something that, you know, we, we tell our students all the time, right? As, as you know, go visit as I, I don't know how, how many times you have to like, pound it into the head, go to the site, go to the space, go see this building, go there. Like you have the opportunity, go to it. What does it do when you're there versus. The sort of the still imagery, you know, like, and something like this too has a lot of different perspectives from as you walk around it or even in, into it or underneath it and things kind of around it. And so,

Jamie: 24:25

well, and well, and as you say that it was, so I was with one of my team members and I pointed out to him, while we were in the park. I said, you know, look at where the grass has been walked on. Hmm. And so I was like, and, and at that point, like I gravitated to that spot and this is where that sketch is. so this is the vantage point that's not on one of the axial paths to the sculpture. this is kind of off the, off of that path. and I thought in, in my vantage point, I, I felt like this was particularly the one that that resonated with me.

Kurt: 25:08

Yeah, it's nice. Guess I might even steal this and show it to my students tomorrow. we're talking about vignettes lately. Mm-hmm. right? And, and, and in their case it's gonna be from a computer model, but is. it is tr trying to encourage them to understand where the eye should be. Right? Right. Where, where is the horizon and where is the eye? And and then your, your human figure in the sketch for scale helps in perspective, like sort of puts some dimension to the sculpture as well.

Jamie: 25:45

Right. And, and, well, and, and like the very simple skeletal. Like Jamie tree, like squiggle. You know, you, you, you, you get the idea very quickly. Like for those who aren't seeing the sketch, the sculpture is the part that's rendered the most and it's shade. Shadow. This is, this is a very traditional, you know, this is an art one project. You know, if you've ever taken an art one class where it's here's your, here's your still life, render this still life with shade and shadow. You know, try not to draw any straight lines. And, and I think that that's really where, you know, I was trying to work the image that way. And then the, like you said, you know, the vignette aspect of it is, is, okay, I wanna center this still life with a person for scale. And then the environment with these squiggly little trees that are barely there. And then this very tall, what appeared to be like an apartment building across the street. and instead of trying to render every floor and every window, it was like you get the sense there's a big building back there. Yep. You know? Yeah. That's enough. Exactly.

Kurt: 27:03

Yeah. It's, it's, it's funny. I was doing a little homework of my own to, to try and get ready for, tomorrow's lecture. And, I mean, you're checking all the boxes that, the, that the tutorials, you know, I had to, I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track, but, you know, framing and you have this distance. You know, this, this sort of blurry background that creates a little more depth, but also some field for the, for the focal point in the middle, which you added all the ornament and well texture too. But anyway, yeah. So you checked all the boxes, so I'm just standing here going Yep, yep, yep. As he is, as Jamie's explaining this, Kurt,

Jamie: 27:45

Kurt Kurt's grading, grading. Me, I, I think I did okay on today's exercise. Thank you. Yeah. Na

Kurt: 27:51

yeah. Horizon. It's all about that horizon So yeah, thanks. I mean, I think it's great. You know, the pencil too sometimes, too is it's the, the tool that you have at, at hand. We kind of talk about that a lot. But, I gotta switch, switch view here, but the, you know, we can all get caught up in like our software or, or pens or pencils. You know, the rendering techniques and things like that, but you, you know, you gotta use what you got at the time. And that little simple golf catty pencil is, is capable of many things through

Jamie: 28:32

the hand. Yeah, yeah. And, and I'm glad you described it that way, cuz that that's sort of, that's probably where it came from is like some like foot golf experience where it's like, here's this. S tiny little pencil. It's, it's the, I'll throw that in my, my bag, which goes in the pocket when you're out exploring and like, you never, not afraid to lose it, but at the same time, you've got it. So it's all good.

Kurt: 28:59

The, in, in, in studio last week, There was a, a cup of, like a cup full of pens that the students were like, man, whatever. You know, it's just random pens, you know, I don't know. They, I don't know where they came from, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there was a sign pen, pentel sign pen in there, a blue one. And I was like, oh, well this is, I was like, Paul, this, well, this is like one of the best sketching pens. There is this sign pen you like. It's like, I'm just gonna keep. I don't get paid much. I'll just, might as well keep this You're like,

Jamie: 29:35

I'm ping. You're like,

Kurt: 29:38

yeah. I was like, yeah, put it in my pocket. The students didn't, didn't, they didn't care. Right. They didn't even know, understand the power of the pentel.

Jamie: 29:47

They're not even go, they're not even going to the site. Let's you know, they're just.

Kurt: 29:53

right? Yeah. Well, why, why would I go there if I could just Google Earth it?

Jamie: 29:57

Yeah. Like Google Street. Like Google Street View. Come on. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Before we,

Kurt: 30:05

not the same devolve into this, this, this sort of hate, hate, was it shade throwing? That's the way to say it, right? There's,

Jamie: 30:14

there's no shade like in Imperial Street view, like we all do it. Let's be honest. You, you, you have to inhabit the space. So Yeah. And the instincts take over. I mean, like, you're there and like the instincts take over and

Kurt: 30:32

Yeah. which I would imagine it is a good segue to these two, this last two views from Boston, right? It's like, so, on the right, you were teasing me and you were like, oh, check out this Richardson. And then a couple of hours later, you know, this sketch on the left appears on Instagram, and so you just told me before we started, you know, that one is across the street from the other,

Jamie: 30:58

right? Yeah. Yeah. So, blank Slate Coffee in Boston is excellent. and conveniently located a block away from. the building that basically started the Richardson and Romanesque period, that many American cities have tried to emulate. and you know, I mean these are, you know, when we're talking about architecture and architectural history and architectural styles, this is one that, you know, is arguably very, very American. and from an architect that, this is one of his earliest buildings. so Trinity Church, this building is faces, the Boston Public Library. so, so, you know, there's a Yeah. Kind of a, a, well, not, not the brutalist one. The original one. Oh, so it, it faces the original side, not the Johnson brutalist. Addition. Oh. and so those two kind of have this little dialogue with one another, which I think is great. so pay COB free or whatever. I think it was that right. and, yeah, so, Trinity Church was an amazing, amazing building to go into. and I think because I did it on the day I did, there wasn't a whole lot of people there. So it was, it was a space like that was, I appreciated even from the scale of it with just not a lot of folks in it. yeah, it's, and then in, and then enjoyed the coffee. at the multi-story kind of brownstone walkup.

Kurt: 32:32

I see they're down in the storefront, huh? Yeah.

Jamie: 32:34

They're down in the storefront. Exactly. Very cool. Blank street. Huh? Blank street.

Kurt: 32:42

Yeah. That looks like a, yeah. You know, it's just a nice little, I don't, I don't know. Vignette

Jamie: 32:51

Well, well, and what's funny is you, you'd sort of said this, you know, I think before we, we got on air today, was that, sort of the Boston trip for me. and especially, you know, falling on this sketch is the last one today. it feels very San Francisco. Hmm. and so, you know, the fact that the two of us are going out to a 23, in June, and, I'm just excited to add more stuff to the list to go, things to go see.

Kurt: 33:23

Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's been a few years and I, you know, I think, I think that's the, that's the cue to, wrap it up. Is that the Jamie cue to wrap it up? Does it work? If I say it out loud,

Jamie: 33:39

I, you know, that's the peering in Kurt's brain. Yes.

Kurt: 33:44

But, but but I agree. I, you know, we, the last time we did this was in 2019 in Las Vegas, which can be arguable is Las Vegas. I mean, actually wasn't that uninteresting as an architectural conference site given, you know, what we perceive our, Las Vegas to be. But yeah, San Francisco I think is gonna be a lot of. And three years in between since the last time we've done a conference together. So I'm excited for that. Yeah,

Jamie: 34:20

it it's been a while. Yeah. Well, and, and, and even just like our, our, our preview video, like that last image of us is like, that's 2018 buddy, in New York City. So, Yeah. It's only been when, when, when we were just coming up with the idea for this podcast.

Kurt: 34:43

That's true. That's right. Yeah, that's right. We, we, germinated this idea in the middle of, Or in, in the conference in New York. And, and that was that picture. It's so sentimental now. Jamie. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I met her. Go before I start crying, there's, there's,

Jamie: 35:00

there's tears. Yes. Literal tears. Okay. thanks buddy.

Kurt: 35:03

This was great. Yes, thanks. Thanks a lot.