Kurt: 0:32

Hey Jamie. Welcome back.

Jamie: 0:35

How are you doing,

Kurt: 0:37

I'm good. My, my eyes are tired cuz I've been drawing all day or all week, I should say, but that's no excuse. I mean, I mean, I'm glad to be here. I was

Jamie: 0:50

driving a lot, both, both driving and passenger, but yes. went down to the border.

Kurt: 0:58

Oh yeah. Like, which

Jamie: 1:00

city? your, I thought you're gonna be like, which border? Like the one south, the south border. The one that's closer to me than to you. but yeah. went to, Catula and Laredo and Eagle Pass. And Eagle Pass and Laredo were on the border. Uls just nearby.

Kurt: 1:19

Oh, okay. The, I just heard a, a, a thing on npr. I can't, I, I won't be able to remember it, but they were talking about Brownsville, I think something down at the border was going on. But Brownsville, Texas. That's a border of town, right? Yes. Are you aware? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Am I aware? Yes. Yeah, you're closer. I know we're

Jamie: 1:39

closer and know it's, it's well, and you say I'm closer. It's like

Kurt: 1:43

five hours away. Yeah. Well, you know, so I can, so my car. The nearest international border to me. Mm-hmm. is one hour and 15 minutes south of

Jamie: 1:57

my house. Yeah.

Kurt: 2:03

From, from Detroit. If I, so if I drive to Detroit, Right. Going south. You cross the bridge into Windsor. Oh, okay. Canada. How do you like that? That's

Jamie: 2:15

it. I like how you were like Canada. Yeah,

Kurt: 2:19

it's, it's an international border. Yes. So, oh, we have a chat. Oh, hey, cool. It's, it's, a friend from, another channel. I don't know. Can you see the chat, Jamie, or no? Yes, I can. Yeah, I could, I could throw it up there. So I believe that this is Carl. I think that's it. What he, what his street name is. Hopefully I didn't just put him out there, but, we know each other from the Archie Marathon. Discord server, and he has his own, YouTube channel where he streams and, and, uploads things about architecture too. So. Okay. And he's a fan of, fan of the old footy too.

Jamie: 3:02

I see that. I

Kurt: 3:03

see that. Yeah. So, yeah, if you have any, que Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Here's a, here's a little follow up. So, yeah, Carl. Yeah,

Jamie: 3:13

like both of us could like, and for those new to the show, and like Kurt and I are like, both have like the foibles of like terrible with names and, and I think always have been, Kurt's better at it than me, I will admit. but yeah. I couldn't remember a name to save my life.

Kurt: 3:33

Probably. No. Well, don't, you're giving me too much credit, but I have, I have trouble too, remembering names. No, no. Why? I, I do remember Carl's name is, you know, when we used, when we're on Discord, we're not u really using our own names. Like we have these different handles, you know? Right. Just like any media, social media, whatever. But for it's less. Use your name that I've noticed on disc. Then say Twitter, right? My Twitter handle is my name. But anyway, so, you know, we, I started watching, or, or no watching, going to Archie Marathons, discord in the pandemic, and. You didn't know anybody, then you start to meet people from around the country, around the world. And and so that's how I know Carl. So,

Jamie: 4:27

because I mean, they're in Australia, I mean, right. I mean, yeah.

Kurt: 4:30

Kevin. Yeah, Kevin's Australia. He's Australia. Yeah. But it's, I mean, he's pretty, he's got a very global audience. Right.

Jamie: 4:36

But I'm, I'm talking about him though. Yeah.

Kurt: 4:38

Yes, Kevin. Yeah. Yeah. And you were on the jury with Kevin. Mm-hmm. last, last spring. And we, we might get, I'm trying to get you back cuz we have the same class that you were in last, you know, you came, joined my jury last year, try and get you back this year. we're, we're in spring break right now, and so come April, we will, tap you to join the, the zoom, the zoom presentation for the grad students again. Always fun. Always fun. If Carl wants to join too that'd be great, you know? Yeah. Yeah. He's done a little teaching, I think here and there. Kurt's.

Jamie: 5:17

Kurt's taking care of all of it tonight. Like he's got a task list that I'm not aware of, but it's all Kurt's to-do lists we will cover in this episode one 13. It's right there. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah. note to self during coffee sketch podcast. Get jurors for school.

Kurt: 5:40

Jamie's mad now because,

Jamie: 5:42

no, I'm not, I'm just tea because,

Kurt: 5:44

Oh. You know, well, Carlton knows, you know, plenty. So you, you, you're, you're more than welcome to join. So, But anyway, yes, I, I am tick all the boxes and probably ticking Jamie off in, in the process. But, anyway, so what, let's get into our regular segment of what coffee is in the mug today, Jamie.

Jamie: 6:09

Oh, wow. So, I'm glad you asked cuz I even have like a visual aid cuz I was telling you that I had ordered some little city coffee. It had not arrived in episode one 12. So I had gone with the Mardi Graland, and, and all that was good. but this, ooh, Nice

Kurt: 6:34

show and tell. Yeah. Guava chocolate.

Jamie: 6:39

I missed the second strawberry. Mm. So it's very kind of interesting, but I'm gonna read it to you because I just. I think that the cards are new. I, that, that seems like a new thing from them, but maybe I'm just, maybe it's been a while since I ordered theirs. but you

Kurt: 6:55

could be like Danielle and just throw everything in the trash as as soon as it comes.

Jamie: 6:59

Yeah. It's like super. Hey, you know, I mean, it's, it's super exciting to get, you know, gifts in the mail. So this lot, a blend of yellow and red couture is fermented in stainless steel tanks for 48 to 60 hours. through diverse plant genetics and experimentation, the brothers Elias and Shady Beter bring a unique portfolio of offerings from their family farm in Tolima, Columbia. mm-hmm. Yeah. The whole cherries are then dried for 15 to 25 days before resting in silos. The result is a complex coffee with intense red fruit, tropical notes, a rich chocolate base and a syrup body. Mm-hmm. and, and. it's not as, I, I don't, I don't get the rich cho woody base. it's, it's a lot more mild than, than I thought it would be. the, the, the kind of tropical notes for sure, I mean, are, are in it. But yeah, it, I think it, I think it could lean a little bit heavier on that, kind of sugary part. So, no, it's a nice, but it's a nice kind of, you know, a nice darker roast. so, well good. And Little City, little City's here in Austin, so.

Kurt: 8:18

Yeah, I'm a big, I'm a big fan. I've had a couple of little city, roasts, but the, remind me, do you, are you, like a French press user and grinding them? Yeah. Are you,

Jamie: 8:32

I use a grinder, but I don't, not the French press. Yeah.

Kurt: 8:35

So you'll grind up your beans and put it in Mr. Coffee.

Jamie: 8:41

Yeah. Put it in the coffee maker thing. Yeah. Yes.

Kurt: 8:45

Sorry, we're not sponsored by, you know, Mr. Coffee? Yeah. There,

Jamie: 8:48

there is no sponsor for the coffee. We're working on it though. that would be really nice.

Kurt: 8:53

we're getting close. I think. I, I feel. There's some coffee folk

Jamie: 8:56

out there who, who, you know, they, they know about us, they know

Kurt: 9:00

they did this. Let's see. you know, would that help our cause? Right. You know, just casual,

Jamie: 9:06

casual, namedropping people that you, people that you know, go with the Flint. the Flint

Kurt: 9:13

originals. I gotta, I gotta turn this off though, because I'm not currently, sipping on Any rootless

Jamie: 9:19

coffee? Be quiet. I had to,

Kurt: 9:22

had to switch it up. The so we got some more. So my misfits market order came in the mail yesterday, and I, I was outta coffee, so I asked Danielle to include, another bag of intelligentsia. Again, it's kind of like, they call it the. Odds and ends are, off, off. I don't know what's wrong with it. You know, I don't know what's

Jamie: 9:47

wrong with it, It's, but it tastes, it tastes

Kurt: 9:50

like good coffee to me. It's, it's intelligentsia and the, so the bag did have some tasting notes on there of, similar to yours, turban. I don't think it had a fruit in there, but some chocolate and, maple syrup or something. Something else kind of sweet. So it was very rich sounding. Maple syrup. You're like talking my language. I'll have to, I didn't, I didn't bring the bag to share with, yes. With the audience, but, The, so I, I ground some up right away and put that in, through the French. I used the French press since Danielle's actually not a big, she likes decaf cuz she's, she's not a caffeine. Caffeine and, and, and Danielle don't mix. So, so I, I I don't really brew more than one cup at a time, which is, I guess, kind of the ritual. So what it does for. Sort of a side story is that, you know, I, I work from home for myself and so if I don't walk outta here to the kitchen and turn the pot of water on and start grinding beans and, and getting the French press ready, I will never leave my desk. And so it's like a, a sort of, A

Jamie: 11:12

cyclical sort of, it's like a safety valve is what it is. Yeah. It's like, I was gonna say at first it was like a daily meditation, but it sounds like it's, it's more of like multiple Yeah. Multiple daily meditations. Like for your sanity. yeah,

Kurt: 11:29

yeah, yeah. You, you know, I can't just have. No, I, I don't think, I mean, but Danielle apparently can't have any, so you know, as they say, like, they always say opposites tracked. There's another, check box checked, I guess, for that sort of thing. But I digs. So anyway, so this new one, this new one. It's very good. It's, again, it's, I think it's always hard to decipher the tasting notes into exact things. But you know, sometimes the first cup in the

Jamie: 12:08

third

Kurt: 12:10

you get different, reactions, I think taste buds. Oh, well,

Jamie: 12:14

yeah, probably. I mean, there's probably something like, like, like a coffee sommelier will be able to tell you all about that, but, As I've said that, that should be one of our plans, you know, for some kind of, you know, fun side project. road trip.

Kurt: 12:30

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Roasting coffee on our own for the podcast or inviting us sommelier. To talk about copy instead of sketching.

Jamie: 12:45

Right. Yeah. Well, or both. Yeah. so I, I, you did mention to me before we even hit the, the pre-show that you had some news.

Kurt: 12:55

Oh yeah. See, I almost forgot again. So, yes. Thanks for reminding me. I, you can now call me, although Jamie's already been called an exhibited artist. But now I too can be called an an exhibited artist because I, I had a original piece of work, accepted to the Buckham Gallery here in Flint. for their show, they put out a call for, they call it like small objects, so anything under 12 inches, you know, 12 by 12 by 12, whatever. And so anything that's fit inside of that sort of, You know, cubic volume would be eligible, any kind of volume. So it's kind of a mixed media, anything goes sort of thing. And so, so you know, we've talked about this on the, on the podcast before that I've been sort of playing around or tinkering with this 3D printer that I bought plus. You know, grasshopper and Rhino and, you know, having fun with, kind of trying to, I've been trying to sort of digitize some of the, the sketches that Jamie's done over the years in, in a, well, at least from my own understanding of how to use the software and try and execute some of these things. So, so anyway, it resulted in a, a series of these. I'll try and show up to the, show it to the. A series of these sort of, three by three by three ish, you know, hybrid landscapes. Hybrid landscapes that are generated through this algorithm. And then I output to a file that then I can send to my 3D printer and. You get these, these little models and actually you can probably see a few on my bookshelves over here if I can point in the right direction, but gotta

Jamie: 14:51

have study

Kurt: 14:51

models. Yeah. So, and the fun part is I run a different iteration and, you know, mixing in the, the inputs on the, on the algorithm and you get a different, totally different. You know, generation and then, so I'm still, I'm actually interested in exploring that more, but we don't have to get into all that today, but,

Jamie: 15:13

well, we do have another like, gallery submission that we're considering and That's right. And, maybe it's a, a. You know, extra intentionality, and collaboration on that one. So now, now that you, now that you've, you've kind of, created a little bit more exacting in your science, and process, you know, you know, reinsert Jamie into it and then, and then blow it up and we'll figure out what we, we come up with, that'll be fun.

Kurt: 15:42

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too when, when you mentioned it to me yesterday, I think, and I started thinking like, okay, well, How do we try and kind of, you know, work this from, from hand to computer and back and something that then, you know, we can document and turn into. The physical object of whatever scale, you know? So I, I, we'll have to read all the instructions and the, excuse me, the,

Jamie: 16:10

parameters. Yeah, the call, the call, the call for artists. Exactly right. The rules. the rules. It's just the rules.

Kurt: 16:20

gotta have boundaries, constraints, I should say, you know, so, Yeah, so I'm excited. I, I think it'll be, put up, the exhibit will be put up, by the beginning of April, I think. So I've gotta deliver my, my peace next by next week. And then well, it'll be up, up. Cheers

Jamie: 16:40

and congratulations.

Kurt: 16:42

Yeah, thanks. It is for sale. If you want to know, it will be listed for the. Easy, easily to acquire price of$35.

Jamie: 16:57

Ooh, see you. You're cheap. Cheaping out on yourself. I didn't know where smoke. You should have, you should have talked to me first. It's okay. Oh, it's, thanks. It's okay.

Kurt: 17:07

It's okay. I, I actually been thinking about that actually was when I was drinking my coffee this morning. I was like, I don't really think that's the, the number I should have used.

Jamie: 17:17

No. You're like, how many, how many things of coffee can I buy if I sell this thing? You know, it's gotta, it's, it's, it's a, it's like a, like on the scales, right? So,

Kurt: 17:27

well after the commission that the gallery takes is Yeah.

Jamie: 17:31

You're gonna buy like a cup of coffee.

Kurt: 17:33

I, yep. I pretty much, and I don't know, I probably might have to pay tax on that$22,

Jamie: 17:39

right? Oh boy. Kurt. Kurt, Kurt.

Kurt: 17:44

Yep. Well, you know, there there'll, there, there will be a next time. So yeah. Yes, there will. So, so do you want to, did you have any news? I didn't, we didn't talk about anything? No, no. I don't know. This was,

Jamie: 17:57

this is all about, this is all about you buddy. well, thanks. So yeah, no, I'm excited for you. That's, that's, that's good stuff. I mean, I went, I went to an art gallery yesterday, but No, that's, that has nothing to do with anything other than like, arts on the mind, so.

Kurt: 18:12

Well, you got a, you, you did tell me you got a shout out from the

Jamie: 18:16

Yes, I did. It was very, very nice of them. but yeah, the, that is not the reason why I went. Oh,

Kurt: 18:24

does, does your, did your iPhone didn't give you a little notification? Like if you show up here, shout out will be made. No.

Jamie: 18:31

So show up. Yeah. No. it's Siri and Alexa. Like, they did not advise me to do this, so.

Kurt: 18:39

So do you have both Siri and Alexa

Jamie: 18:43

in the house? Mm. now that you bring it up, you do, I mean, I guess, yeah, right. I mean, but don't you, I mean, doesn't everybody have like several ais just floating around their house? I mean, you know,

Kurt: 19:01

not, not, not us, but probably eventually we have series. Yeah. So, yeah. But yeah. Anyway, sorry. Side another, another, another tangent for,

Jamie: 19:14

yeah. Kurt Kurt's just like, catching up, you know, it's like, let's, let's go down the technology rabbit hole. and then, and then go to the analog sketches. Yeah.

Kurt: 19:24

Well, well you brought up both. I mean, you know, they're, they're competitors in a way, right? Yeah. All there to help you so or

Jamie: 19:35

annoy

Kurt: 19:36

you. Right. Exactly. We, yeah, we, we need to save, another episode for AI

Jamie: 19:45

of Tech and Oh, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. I mean, like the whole, like, chat G B T. Like,

Kurt: 19:52

you know, we did talk a little bit about, mid Journey Yeah. A couple, couple episodes ago. But we, we, you know, we can, we can, we

Jamie: 20:01

can circle back on

Kurt: 20:02

some of that. Yeah. So you want to talk about your analog sketch? Yes. It was not created by any AI whatsoever. But it was created by Jamie. I, Jamie, AI

Jamie: 20:19

Yeah. All ink. You know, the, the favorite pilot pen, of course. there was the, the, the, the pencil that's there. They like, it looks like I was at the golf course or something like that, which is not true. so maybe a foot golf course. but that was used at the very end, just for some real subtle kind of shading stuff. But

Kurt: 20:44

yeah, I, I did see that, you know, you tried to. Little pencil in the black and white, but I saw that pen pencil it.

Jamie: 20:51

Well, it's like a, it's like, I'm not hiding it. It's just, it's, it's tiny. I mean, it's like, I mean, look at that and it's like, you know, there's, there's not much to that. You know, you're, you're not, it's not like a graphite, you know, like charcoal or something like that. That would be fun. Oh yeah. So,

Kurt: 21:10

well, the, You know, I, I like showing your sketches to Danielle cuz it just, she, she's reignited her own, you know, pencil art. and, and, but she's, she, she sometimes like acquires media, you know, different pencils and pen, graphites and colors and things like that. And, and I'm like, yeah, but look at Jamie's nub. Nub of a tool here that he's scrolling with, right. It's not about the fancy tools at times, but it's about the tool that you have

Jamie: 21:47

at the time. I, I mean, you know, I've got collections of, you know, stuff just like. Danielle does, it sounds like. and I will use those two, but I also tend to, you know, you, there's audibles, you know, you just sort of, you know, you hybridize things, you bend the rules a little bit. you pick up the pencil that's sometimes the closest to you. I'm like, oh, yeah, this'll work. but no, I, I think that, you know, why I was hoping we could talk about this one today is that I don't do a whole lot of interior sketches of late mm-hmm. and this one was a really deliberate. You know, instance where, we talked about a little bit on the last show of, you know, you kind of get in that habit of certain styles or certain modes of thinking, whether it's work that you're doing or things that you're trying to process and think about or solve. and so this one was, this one again, was, it was trying to challenge myself. Like not necessarily a space that I was designing per se, but it was one that I was trying to understand a little bit. And then in sort of taking the visual notes of the space, started designing over the top of it and then changing my mind about it as I went through the sketch so this one ended up being kind of a, kind of a, a longer sitting with the sketch. I'd say it is about 20 minutes. but it wasn't a whole lot. It wasn't the, the frenetic pace would come in bursts. and I think in between those, it was a lot of kind of a analyzing thinking through kind of what, you know, what some of the options were and, And changing my mind, as I kind of worked through the, through the ideas and I was like, oh, this is, you know, this is a floor pattern. No, this is not the floor pattern. and you know, this, this could have kind of a mural on the inside of the wall, like a wallpaper, and then it was, You know, does that wall, is the wall really? Then I started playing these kind of mind games with myself, was like, well what is the, is the wall really there and is it sort of dissolving and you're actually seeing beyond the wall and the, the openings are the frame. It was it. It was a really kind of strange,

Kurt: 24:05

oh yeah, I could see it. surrealism

Jamie: 24:08

there, huh? Yeah, it was, it was sort of became this, like at the, the longer I sat with it and wouldn't put the pencil or the, excuse me, the pen down, was, it just sort of kept changing my vantage point of it. And it's just a, it's a real simple one point perspective. This. mm-hmm. and then, you know, and then a, and then a, a small plan space because it is an actual space that I had been in. and so this was sort of done by, done from memory. and yeah, it was a, it was a, it was a strange exercise. I it something I hadn't done in, in a while like this. and, and kind of liked the result. even though it's kind of messy and a little bit muddled in, in spots,

Kurt: 24:52

well I don't, you know, it doesn't, well, actually doesn't really look messy to me. And you know, I think I appreciate your, Feeding, you're filling in the background on, on how like you did create this cuz you know, sometimes when, you know, when you're posting these things on Instagram, The, not to me necessarily, but you know, because you, you know, you're taking these sort of snapshots of different projects. Sometimes it's a real thing, sometimes it's a conceptual thing. It's a, you know, and, and so they're not necessarily, which is great, you know, cuz it's, it's, it's sort of a, a wide. and so sometimes, well, because you're so prolific at sketching, you know, the next one comes up and the next, and then we sometimes skip or forget some because this one is a, a week or two old. And, and so just to, to talk about like where, where it came from. But actually as you point out, like the, you know, the, the sort of vertical lines that you'd like to use for say, like horizon or sky and things like that are kind of like blurring into the sort of the, the wall pattern and clouds and things like that, like you said. which is kind of like, if, if there was a green screen on the sketch that's like sort of, casting this or projecting like this imagery, which could be really interesting. If that's how a wall, a wall finish was created, but then like the little plan sketch in the corner that is overlaid in, in the, in the whole scene. that's kind of, you know, something that you've done before. So it's nice to, you know, you, you sort of, you're showing how you're thinking, like as you just described, how you were kind of quickly iterating on different. You know, patterns or windows, surfaces and, and then it from plan to plan to perspective and back and forth, and something that like, you know, I always, I assume to say this al almost every week now, but like the, my students just, just don't, do you know, they're, they're. Tied up into Rhino or any, any software, and they don't, sometimes you can get, even with a, a relatively free form, like, you know, rhino doesn't have too many constraints on what you're making. Like, say re you know, Revit, I don't know. We've been getting the software and stuff like that. There's a lot of sort of geometric, documentation constraints that just like, Not very flexible, right? But even something that is less constraining like a rhino. It's still the computer versus the sketch, right? Like you didn't necessarily map out or dimension where the line's going. You're just using your eye and your hand to move, you know, the pen around the pencil, kind of like, you know,

Jamie: 27:54

well, and you get, and you have a sense of proportion and scale. And, and I think that like, and when we, when you described it as sort of the green screen or a digital screen, You know, I'm thinking of those immersive technologies that oftentimes happen in galleries now. So, yeah. You know, there's art exhibitions that do sort of those immersive environments, and so you're projecting onto a wall and almost dematerializing the wall into kind of this other realm. And when you said that, it was like, that's the best, that's a better description of what I think. Kind of design became, it wasn't necessarily, that's where it started. And that's, I mean, you know, to your discussion about the students is like, that's just maturing as a designer. And I don't, and we've talked about this before, maturing doesn't necessarily mean age, you know, maturing is, is process. Is, is kind of recognizing that the process is sometimes the product. and kind of, and kind of leaning into that, making mistakes. like there was parts of this where I was like, gosh, this just doesn't look right, you know, and like, what am I trying to draw here? And, you know, and sort of like would pause and I think that's why this one took a little bit longer. but it wasn't like, pause, give up, go, you know? Go do the French press, coffee. I mean, but it was, it was, you know, it became kind of iterative and, and sort of seeking it and at the same time sort of letting go with it. and it, you know, like you said, it sort of became a bit surreal, in, in the overall aesthetic. But I think it, even without the explanation of it, I think it works because. Both the plan is read as a plan and the openings in the door are recognizable in that plan. And because those openings are recognizable both in the plan, then when you look to the perspective, you can sort of draw this sense of reality between the two spaces. and then it becomes kind of an interesting. You know, opportunity to kind of look at the perspective and go, what's going on here? I'm inside the building, but there's these elements that don't look like there should be inside. and I think that makes it, you know, a, a really interesting composition overall at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. and then, you know, I think the last move was using the pencil, because there was a, a sense of. Shadow that because there's so many lines being used to kind of differentiate that corner in the upper portion where there's sort of the detail in the ceiling and, and the, the chandelier. that shadow and crosshatch doesn't really kind of suffice because at the same time I wanted that wall to still feel like it had. The opportunity to even kind of move past it and wasn't gonna achieve that with the pilot pen. So used a little bit of the graphite to, to get, get myself there and then found some other spots to kind of, kind of fill in the visual weight of the whole thing. Make the eye kind of move around the page, even though it's still in a small book.

Kurt: 31:15

Yeah. Yeah. I, I can totally see that. Especially while when you're using as you said, like the surrealism that emerged as far as like using pen to create hatch, but also pattern or that's not the right, right. Explanation. It's, you know, so you're using it for Sky, but it also can be read. A wall material. So then bringing a pencil that, you know, is that, that sort of, you know, gets you that gray area or that that, that tonality I guess of, of a shadow, versus the pen, you know? So then you have the contrast in there too. So I could see how that that is working there.

Jamie: 31:59

The, well, and, and, and it was, you know, it's funny cuz you, you were, joking with me before we got started about my use of the Prisma color pen. and, and, and those two, I've been using a lot on some renders, you know, kind of more finished renders or, or working renders for projects, you know, in this, it was like, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not touching anything else. It was just, you know, simple, you know, simple tool, simple pencil. Just give me a, just gimme a little bit of a gray. there's a little sort of squiggle to that gray in that, in that wall. and, and it just, it works. it's, it's enough of a, a medium tone in between the one line weight pen, the whiteness of the page, to give you that ec that ec that in between gradient that's sometimes just needed in, in a, it sometimes is the missing part in a really nice pen. you know, I love a, I, you know, obviously I love a good pen sketch, but lately I've, lately I've found that the, the tonality of a little graphite or a prisma color really, you know, finishes it off for me as a composition.

Kurt: 33:12

Yeah. The, the, the one, I guess I, I don't know if you were, you know, the last thing that I was thinking of, bringing up is like the idea of, when, when we were in school, a lot of my instructors would kind of, Deter us from using pen in sketches until, like you said, maybe some maturity was gained in, in technique or, you know, in, in, in the process. And practice. Practice, practice. Because you know, a pen of is one weight, right? One line weight, unless you, well, unless you fountain pen or something a little more tricky. and the pencil though can, you can get more range out of a pencil. Mm-hmm. with the side, the point, the fact that light or heavy press, you know, stuff like that, you know, or pressure on the page and stuff. So anyway. Yeah. I don't know if you were also equally deterred. Penn sketching?

Jamie: 34:18

Well, I mean, for me it was, you know, yes. Obviously, from, by some professors. I mean, I, I recently read an article, in our sort of pop culture se segueway, a lot of folks don't know that, like, a and m. For a long time had this sort of smaller program housed within the College of Architecture, called the VIS Lab, and, and now it's now the program's really grown to the point that it's in the fine arts college and it's, it's, it's moved, it's kind of grown and grown itself right out of the College of Arch. and is is a really amazing program. you know, and, and very, very high caliber. but one of the graduates, It was, interviewed in an, in an article, for the alumni, former student magazine. And because he had, he's Oscar nominated for his work as a visual effects person for Wakanda forever. And, but his first design professor, cuz that was the thing like back in the day, like the vis people and architects were like, It was like the same group. And then, you know, you, you kind of, kind of separated, you know, after a few years. but, so his first design professor was actually my first design professor and many, many other students, first design professor. and he, what was funny was it's the only prof that he mentions in his interview with the magazine, about his time at a and m. And his, his quote from it talks about, you know, that, Rodney would have at the beginning of every class, have all the students do a meditation. To like start the studio day, like, and the meditation basically consisted of us getting on top of our drafting tables and laying down and getting really still, shutting our eyes and kind of, you know, projecting. And he would, do a narrative while we. relax and meditate. And that would, we did that for every studio as we started. and so he described that and it's like, yes, I, if you've been his student, you know that, and that will change your perspective when you're like 18 years old and never had. you know, a teacher go, oh yeah, everybody get up on their desks and shut your eyes. I'm gonna, I'm gonna start talking and you just relax. And then we're, then we'll have studio class. It's like, that sounds awesome. Yeah. It, well, it's just, it's, it's about, you know, I mean a lot of it is also up a way of thinking. and, and, and I, I think that the, you know, you ask about the sketches, it's like, I mean, there's, there's rules and there's rules to be broken. as a lefty, I mean, so many times growing up it would be like, you know, you'd, you know, have like graphite, like all like that whole Yeah. You know, side of the hand. Ink the same thing. And, you know, profs in school be like, you know, you're gonna have a problem in my class, cuz like, your stuff's always gonna be smudged and you know, you're terrified at that point. so, you know, having all that, you know, that bag of baggage and trauma in my life, now, like I'm all about, you know, letting. So, yeah.

Kurt: 37:45

Well, I, I'm, I'm with you on that one. I think that's another level of maturity is, is also being able to let it be, but yeah. Now you've gotten me into the meditative mind, mind frame. So before I get into too deep into my, my own meditation, I think, I think we gotta call it a wrap for this one. Yep. This was great. Quick chat. Yeah, thanks a lot.