Coffee Sketch Podcast

112 - Sketching in Section

March 05, 2023 Kurt Neiswender/Jamie Crawley Season 5 Episode 112
Coffee Sketch Podcast
112 - Sketching in Section
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Show Notes Transcript

Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!

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Kurt:

Hey Jamie, how's it going?

Jamie:

Good episode one 12. Here we are.

Kurt:

Yeah, we, it's been exciting. I honestly am very excited about the new year, our slightly evolved format. It's been a lot of fun kind of playing around with some of this, and now we've, so we've, we've, produced and uploaded a, a i, I can't remember now. Like what, five, at least

Jamie:

five years. Yeah, it was a, it was a pretty busy, January and February, so yeah. We're, yeah.

Kurt:

Even with the short month

Jamie:

Yeah. Short month. you know, little gaps in there for some other events. yeah, we, we did good.

Kurt:

So,

Jamie:

how so what's the, what's the coffee right now? What's the coffee right now? Well,

Kurt:

I actually had to, well, I've got, I got two cups, but, you know, I'm drinking out of this silicone pint glass. just a little, little water, you know, for the Vogel cords. But the, I've, I think since we last spoke, I had to go and get some root. Our friends at Rootless and I got, I got the, the, the one they call dark, so it's their dark

Jamie:

roast.

Kurt:

Oh, okay. And it has a nice crow, a nice art piece of the crow. A crow on the cover, or a raven,

Jamie:

I suppose. Or even like a grackle. Could it be like a grackle? It

Kurt:

could be a grackle, it could be, you know, I mean for an, for the north, right, right. Because it's some, some,

Jamie:

probably more raven than, than, than grackle.

Kurt:

But yeah, that's what I, I've got, and I have not forgotten that I do owe you for the Super Bowl, and I know you will ne let me forget. So, you know, there, there's incoming. I'll just say that incoming. Good. And, thank you. You know, we, we've, you know, we, well, we passed, well Super Bowl was, Valentine's Day we passed that. We got the short month, you know, we'll, we'll make up for it in, in, in March here, but so, so that's what I got. I like the dark, you know, the dark roast is nice. It's, it's got a, you know, it's got that flavor, you know? Mm-hmm. it's got a strong, strong, intense flavor. But, not too, too over the top, but the, you know, this guy's a rule here. Just doing what, you know, I actually, before I ask you about your cup of coffee, is I just saw the guys from root list post on their social. That they had a visitor, and I don't know if you, have this chain in your area. but, the founder of Bigby Coffee, which is a Michigan, you know, Michigan based coffee chain. and I think they, you sort of spread around the Midwest a little bit. I don't know if they've made it quite as far as you.

Jamie:

Yeah, Texas. Texas is not the Midwest. Yes.

Kurt:

Do you want it to be, can we try and attempt

Jamie:

I'm not, I'm not sure I want it to be.

Kurt:

Yeah, so, so I mean,

Jamie:

do you know, do you know what day today is? March, Texas. Texas Independence Day. Oh, yes. Yeah.

Kurt:

You'll have to explain to the, the contiguous 47 states,

Jamie:

what that means. Oh, do I have to, I mean, I just, let's just say Texas and the. you know? Right. We're special and then we'll leave it at that. So,

Kurt:

so, so, anyway,

Jamie:

and we're, and we're special in a lot of ways that we probably shouldn't be, special about, so, but yes.

Kurt:

You know. No judgment. No judgment, no judgment.

Jamie:

Barbecue. We'll just leave it to barbecue. some damn fine coffee. sports. okay,

Kurt:

well we don't have to keep going. We

Jamie:

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Oh yeah.

Kurt:

So speaking of, speaking of things, also special for my co-host Jamie, as his place of residence is Texas. So what are you drinking in,

Jamie:

in coffee today? I was running. and so, as a sort of a stop gap in between, trying to decide like, you know, which, which local blend, you know, I was gonna get next. cause I felt like I hadn't been really diving into, the local scene as much as I wanted to, of late. So I did place an order, with little. so I have some special ones coming. They're two. I mean, it's beans, but it's two, two blends that I have not had before. So that's exciting. and I'll, I'll save that for another episode. But in the meantime, I did send you that picture of like the one that I found at the store that I was like, you know, this is an impulse by, And so it's community coffee. Well, you know, which is, you know, it's a safe, you know, you know, good, you know, good, safe. but it's their Mardi Gras blend. Whoa. a lot of cinnamon. is it? And so, yeah, a lot of cinnamon.

Kurt:

so, well, you showed me the package. It was called the King's Coffee or King's

Jamie:

Cake. Yeah. King's Cake. King Cake. King's

Kurt:

cake. King Cake. Right. Which is the, which is Mardi gra Mar gra.

Jamie:

Get the Little Baby. There were no babies in the bag.

Kurt:

Those was my next question. That was, yeah, the key that

Jamie:

would be, that would be marketing genius. but no, also creepy.

Kurt:

But creepy is kind of like

Jamie:

cracker jack. Yeah. You're like, like what's, what's, what's that sort of strange object in there? Yeah.

Kurt:

The, you know, it reminds me of probably, probably the favorite, the, my favorite ear of our committee work for AIA A was when we had our meeting in New Orleans, just before Mardi Gras. with, the Young Architects Forum and, what a, what, what a hoot. Yes. What a, it's a, it's it, I don't know. I've never have you, have you been to New Orleans? any other times cuz I've never been down there. And then to be down there around Mardi Gras where every night and, and then as you get closer every day and night is a party.

Jamie:

Yeah. I've been there once, one other time. not, not during Mardi Gras. and so it's a little bit more, you know, you can, you know, sort of take it all in. but yeah, when we were. With Young Architects Forum. That was, that was quite a, quite an event. Yeah, it

Kurt:

was a fun, fun time. I would, we, we need to just go back without, Committee work involved? Just, just to, just to enjoy Oh,

Jamie:

yeah.

Kurt:

The sights and sounds and all that. It's a, it's a cool city.

Jamie:

Well, I mean, you, you remember when we got there too? It was like, like we arrived at about the same time and it, so it was like we went and had like beignets and coffee of course. Right. You know, this is way before the coffee sketch podcast. but it was, Laying their foundation. That's right. Yeah,

Kurt:

that's right. Yeah. No, we, yeah, we The Fed. Fantastic. Beignets. A Cafe Dumont. Good. Got a little sights, you know, sight scene going cuz we were early, which was, yeah. Excellent. Yes. Always smart. And the, yeah, and, and speaking of which, we, we haven't talked yet about the, the AI conference this year, but it is coming up. Yes. So we're, we're, we're kind of amped cause we've been missing

Jamie:

out, missing out pandemic and we're, and we're hopeful that, the powers that be, you know, remember the podcast, they seem to today on, on the social. cuz we were giving them some shout outs for one of our, our friends who's gonna be doing a nice little sketch tour, during the conference, which we are gonna attend of course. Yes, yes. probably bring some coffee, you know, just as we should, maybe a microphone, and, go from there. Yeah.

Kurt:

Our friend Joel, a, a, a guest on our podcast. I believe he w Oh, I'm not gonna guess. I, I thought it was around episode 50, but

Jamie:

I could be, I think I'm wrong. 66.

Kurt:

66. Right, right. Thanks for reminding me. Yes. But the, yeah, that's a really exciting, that he put that together and got that, that session. Signed up and it's not even a terrible slot. It's 10 o'clock on a Saturday. I know. It's a nice time slot. You know, it's, it's so, you know, it's not like you get the eight o'clock or seven 30 slot, which is

Jamie:

Which is, which is which is the slot that Texas Society of Architects gives me for my three hour coffee sketch tour, like, but I have to admit though, when they did, ask me to start doing them, or, you know, kind of pitched the idea and back and forth, it was knowing how their conference is set up. You know, it's the, the workshop, the three hour workshop is. Starts the conference. So for me it's kind of great cuz it's like, just like we were talking about with Cafe D is like, show up to the conference early. You know, walk around and explore, have some coffee, sketch around. It's what I'm gonna do anyways. and so having a, having a group of folks, you know, doing it with me, that just sounds like fun. So, I've done it for two years with them and in San Antonio and then in El Paso, this past year. And the next one's gonna be in Fort Worth. So, Okay, excellent.

Kurt:

Well, maybe I'll have to try and pop in, do a little drop in visit, you know, as they say in Michigan, take a, have a visit with my friend. Friend

Jamie:

Jamie. Hmm. Michigan vocabulary, words and phrases. It's an interesting, yeah. Well, I mean, so we're talking road trips, which, I'm gonna say that, we should have, and we were planning to try and do this, pull this off, have this episode on, February 24th and go live. so, why don't, why don't you pull up that sketch and we can just, oh, yeah, we can chat, chat over it real briefly and then get, get to the, the, the, the other one.

Kurt:

Should we, oh, so let me zoom in a bit over here. Yeah, for a second. Sorry. Tight like, Clean that

Jamie:

up. Scoot. All right.

Kurt:

Here we go. Nice. Nice and sound.

Jamie:

So for the, the folks that have listened to us before, or, you know, listened to us, we probably, you know, drop it every three or four episodes, we'll make some mention of Twin Peaks. Kurt, when we started this podcast, mind you had never, ever seen the. zero episodes, and then we, we got'em hooked. and so, which is awesome. And we even had my friend Jason on. you know, who I've known, you know, since we were teenagers and, which was when, you know, twin Peaks, you know, arrived in, in our life. so imagine being a high schooler and watching Twin Peaks for the first time. Whoa. On network tv, But, yeah. So in, at the very beginning, Agent Cooper is driving into Twin Peaks and you know, he would always be record. You know, messages to himself, that he, I guess he would just relay to, you know, DC or whatever the home office, and this mysterious woman named Diane who sounded like, you know, maybe a secretary or assistant or something, or other agent, you know, you're not totally sure. but you know, he basically starts out by saying, you know, Diane, 1130. February 24th, you know, driving into the town of Twin Peaks. So, February 24th is hence fourth twin Twin Peaks Day forever will

Kurt:

be known as Twin Peaks Day. Yes. Which is one day after my anniversary, which is why. Our episode didn't quite happen, the way we had expected,

Jamie:

so it's okay. But, but what was fun was, you know, I al I always try and do a sketch for Twin Peaks Day, of something related to Twin Peaks, or inspired by it. And, you know, I had been talking to Jason actually, about. you know, a road trip, like actually, you know, going to some of these locations. and, so the, the diner, the double R. is pictured here in the sketch. it's, it's an actual diner. it's a real place, called Tweeds. and so you can, go and have your damn fine coffee and cherry pie, so, maybe a donut or two. So it's good.

Kurt:

Yeah, that's great. You know, the, the, the thing about Twin Peaks is, is what I'm gonna at least touch on is cuz I'm, I'm gonna put you in the spot cuz I'm sure you haven't caught up yet to the amount of television that I've been viewing. But there, I told you, I think probably last Twin Peaks day, we probably talked about this show called Outer Range that has Josh Brolin in it. I don't know if you've seen it yet, but it's fantastic and it gives you, it so only has one season still so far, and I'm like just waiting for the day they launch another season, but it has so much. Of that mystery that's in a, in a twin peak style. So you gotta, you still gotta check it out when you get a chance to, but then I've also tasked you with watching the Last of Us, which we, we briefly talked, I think we talked about a couple episodes ago, and I'm sure you're behind on that too, but that's okay. Yeah, yeah. You know it, you know, you have, you. Higher priorities in making Twin Peaks day sketches and yeah. I gotta,

Jamie:

I gotta draw, like I gotta draw and keep this thing going, you know? Yeah.

Kurt:

But the, yeah, that last of us show is, is just so good. And it has our, our favorite hero. He's now probably our American hero of all television. Pedro Pascal, who plays a, a really. hero kind of character in a, in his own. It's, well, you know, and you know, he's the Mandalorian, he's in the last of us. he's in Narcos. Have you watched Narcos? I haven't seen Narcos. Oh my gosh. He plays, he plays a, a detective in that. And I mean, he's good. He's just a good, good actor anyway, you know, what's the, but anyway, the last of us also, you know, it, it weaves in our. Love for dystopian futures. Yes. Potential existences. You know, sometimes it feels that they're not just science fiction, but might be reality. Right. but anyway, so, you know, yeah. You got. on the, the, the kick for Twin Peaks as a show. And then, so then I'm trying to, you know, share some ideas back to you, you know, but to the sketch before we move on to the other sketch is the, the, this mountain range in the distance has the zigzaggy curtain or the floor of the. The, the Red Room vibes, it's Tracy,

Jamie:

you know? yeah. I hadn't seen that until you started. I mean, it's, but it, it's, you know, I. I think that there's the backdrop to this, like you say, is sort of, you know, I mean it's been a couple days since, since I've kind of re-looked at the sketch. and I mean, the building and all the other stuff came together. I mean, this was only like a, like a 10 minute sketch. it, it came together rather quick. and, and even with that, I don't, no, I don't remember thinking about it kind of as sort of a, a curtain and a backdrop, but it really looks like one to me. You know, it has that sort of black lodge kind of veal to it. and then like you say, like the, you know, the red and the texture of the floor and I mean, there's, there's all these kind of like, you know, the thick curtains, you know, the, the mountain range and the. And have a little bit of that quality to it. Completely un yeah. Very, very, you know, it's just like, it's in the, it's in the head, right? Mm-hmm.

Kurt:

Yeah. So it's always fun. I really love that you're, you revisit these things on these anniversaries, twin Peaks day. and some of our other, you know, like our resolutions episodes and there's, some other sketches that you'll, you know, have these revisions of year after year. It's a lot of fun. So, Well,

Jamie:

I mean, it's just, you know, for me it's, it's, you know, sketching is about memory and so, you know, there's, there's a definite part of that, you know, in all this activity and going back to redo a drawing, I, I never had realized I did it as much as I. until we started doing this podcast. and it's, and it's not doing, redoing the drawing exactly as it was. I mean, it's not like, just like repetitive, it's, it, it's, it's sort of exploring the thoughts and the feelings and the memories about that, particular thing or it's something in my own memory that strikes me to go, you know, I really. I really want to draw that. and, and those sometimes end up being the days in between a sketch that's in situ, you know, out in the field somewhere or project related or whatever. It's sort of where the mine wanders. over a cup of coffee.

Kurt:

Yeah. Which actually it could tend the segue to the other sketch because I'm starting to see things. at least I'll, I'll, I'll let you know. What I'm thinking is that just by, you know, you're talking about memory, drawing from memory and, and you know, so the Tweed Tweeds Cafe or the double R and the perspective of the exterior of that building. And now, you know, for, for since I don't know this building, you know, this might be one of your historic preservation projects or something. now you've sliced, you know, so what we call this is a section through a building. So we, a drawing that we call a section that slices through, like if you took a building and sliced it like a piece of bread, I guess is kind of the best way to describe it. And then look inside, right? So you're looking into the building and just proportionally, you know, it's, it's got the same. Similar, two point perspective angle that the the double R is in. but anyway, so, so more like it's ha it, this, you know, project probably doesn't have anything to do with, twin Peaks, but, but more so in that, like you said, as you were working through, days that you make a sketch or in between sketches and. So your, your sort of hand eye is kind of moving with similar, maybe patterns or, gestures and things like that. So then this slice, of a drawing through a building, which, you know, you've, you've done diagrammatic drawings, but this is a, a little more of a polished presentation section, and perspective of the building. So it's pretty. and then, you know, so once I saw it on Instagram, I was like, beautiful. Take take a little tip. Low comment. Beautiful.

Jamie:

Yeah. No, no, no. well, and, and, and it's, I like that she sort of, you know, described it as, you know, the sketches sort of like there's a mode of the sketch. That sort of finds its way into the next one. you know, stylistically or, or, or even how I'm sort of viewing things, which is I think this one, a little bit. It's, it's that angle and it's sort of, It's cinematic, you know, it, it's, it's how you're sort of framing up the view to tell the story. and I think that, yeah, you, you, you're, I'm fine with myself and my sketches where they're, you know, close in time, that they, There's a comfort level, in a particular perspective. It's like I know how to do it. Mm-hmm. like my brain's sort of thinking that way, scale wise or angle wise, or perspectival, you know, viewpoint. and so it's easy to kind of keep that going for a stretch. it's when I make that shift, that sometimes the sketches aren't exactly the way I want them to be. they're, you know, there's the level of frustration that we've talked about before. Mm-hmm. which you sort of push through it. but yeah, this one, definitely has the same angular kind of perspectival kind of quality. but it is a much more finished sketch. it's one that I, you know, this is a, a much more lengthy drawing. and it's one for work. but it was one where, the idea came to me very, very quickly. So kind of blocking. the pieces of it, that was like a coffee sketch and it absolutely was, you know, very quick. and I knew how I was gonna kind of go about this one. the, the idea behind it, similar to the way you're talking about the sort of slicing the building and sort of revealing what's going on inside, the, the project that we're working on, What we're calling and imagine the possibilities tour. so, you know, imagine the possibilities of this particular downtown building being reimagined, you know, in, you know, whatever city, Texas. And, you know, the, the idea of the theater in the theater space is one that's, you know, most small towns, medium sized towns have that theater downtown or really close to downtown. and when the big movie Plex moved out to the bypass or, you know, stadium seating and all those kinds of things, projects that I worked on, you know, in, in, earlier in my career, it, you know, those theaters sometimes, you know, became arthouse movie theaters or, you know, but they economically typically will. Or have struggled. Some have gone into, you know, disrepair or they've been vacant for a time period, or they've been changed into something else. and then some just sit, like I said, just sit vacant. But the story of that place to the community, you know, at differing ages and connections to it, bad good otherwise, it, it's an anchor. and it's an anchor both as a, an architectural object. but also sort of a community, you know, gathering place. you know, everyone loves to go to the movies, right? and so, you know what sort of the thought here though is you can't recreate the past. You know, that's, that's not the, necessarily the goal, but you gotta, you know, think about how do I respect those memories of this place and then re-envision it in an economically viable. and so for me it's thinking in section, you know, theaters are really big containers. Mm-hmm. and there's some, some opportunities to, to play with spaces and programming in a big, big container box. And then also potentially, you know, because of that, you know, depending upon roof structures and things like that, augmenting them or, or maintaining what's there, and supplanting it with some other ideas. You know, maybe there's some opportunities even on the roof that you're sort of seeing in the sketch. so it, it, but again, it's that facade, that recognizable, archetype of, you know, this is a theater in a downtown context with a canop. you know, in a very, very kind of flat front that probably has, you know, some neon or some signage or, or something like that, you know, with, you know, glass at the storefront as people walk by in, into the, the small compressed lobby, you know, where the ticket booth and the popcorn is you know, how do you, how do you draw that compressed space, which is sort of what that drawing is showing. And then, Open it up into the larger theater and say, what else could this be?

Kurt:

Yeah, the, you know, it's, I was just gonna kind of touch on that if you hadn't got, or, you know, weren't going to call it out, but the, you know, the, these, these downtown infill, they're in a typically middle block situation, two room theater, you know, we've talked about'em before cuz you've looked at some other. Buildings. and, and how to adapt in, in, in at least, particular instances, you know, with, with say, barrier free or, wheelchair accessibility, things like that we talked about. But the, the thing about your sketch is, is, is something I, I talk to my students a lot about lately and, and I'm teaching a, a second year studio, so they're still trying to like underst. Proportion, volume and form. And, and we're not really hitting them with a ton of, spaces or what we call program. Right. Like the how many rooms, bathrooms, corridor, things like that. You know, it's relatively small, small scale project, but something like this, I mean, it's kind of similar to what we're working on now, but, so they're, you know, they're, they, they are just starting to understand the idea. compress and release. Mm-hmm. in, in space and movement and, and creating this sort of attraction or,

Jamie:

or,

Kurt:

what's the word? dynamic. Like a, a sort of dynamic,

Jamie:

like a tension. Tension. Like a tension between, you know, design concepts. Yeah. Yeah.

Kurt:

And so your lobby. and then how to re render that or, or present that, right? So your section, you know, it, it's also full of life and full of what we call entourage, right? People furniture, little bit of lighting. artwork thing. You know, you're, you're very good at that sort of rendering. This, this sort of, per, you know, this the, the perceived function and use of the space and then the, you know, the even idea of like the things on the roof, which are kind of an interesting like, additive, sort of, you know, just, I guess, I, you know, scale wise or you know, this sort of like, I don't, I can't think of anything other than, I don't want to call it a barnacle cuz it's not necessarily parasitic, but it's, these, these just, these additions that are kind of,

Jamie:

but they're held back. They're held back. Yeah. They're held back from the facade so that they're not sort of, you know, you're not, you're not pronouncing that this thing has a big addition on it, but you're, you're giving it that sort of vitality of space. that's sort of fun. and yeah, the, the entourage definitely makes the sketch and for sure, it, what I didn't say is as this, imagine the possibilities project is kind of coming together. these are gonna be tours that are gonna happen in a variety of cities. so what we're working on as a. And I say it's an, and it's a team project, is a, is a poster. and so, that we will distribute, you know, and, and things like that. So these are sort of working drawings, working sketches, but they're going to be incorporated in work that sort of colleagues are doing, where we're gonna hybridize it in Photoshop and take some real photos that we're manipulating in Photoshop. With this sketch. And so you get this sort of blended reality of imagined and real and you know, you know, playing with fonts and graphic design and all the other good stuff too. But, yeah, this, this was sort of one of those not waking dream kind of moments, but it was like, thinking of, thinking of spaces that I've been in or studied, or as you say, you know, been kind of working through as kind of concepts of late, and this is, this is where my head's at.

Kurt:

Yeah. I love it though. I mean, like, just thinking about the, the idea of like this guard. Oh, I should use the other page. But you know, like if we're looking at, you know, this entry, which, you know, this sort of stepped overhang and then the guardrail, and then you could see the line carry across. And it's this solid guard that meets the top of the stair, and then it comes down to stories or, you know, down to the first floor. It sort of creates this, this feature wall. Yeah, it's a, it's a really, it's a lot of really nice things kind of going on. And then I just noticed that this is the projector room. Up here in the, in the loft. Really? Right. And so it's sort of oriented toward the screen in the back, which could sort of re be reused as a sort of, casual theater or a presentation space.

Jamie:

Right. Or art gallery and, you know, and then sort of dining sort of folded in there. So there's some suggestions of all these different. realities that really at this point, you know, for a building like this, the economic reality is, is that it needs to be a multi-functional space. and the programming of it, by the community, is incredibly important. And, you know, is is something that you have to talk to the stakeholders and understand what's what's needed in that community. So for me, it's an imagined reality. This is a placeless place. even though, it was a particular building. from the front. that sort of was the genesis for this slice idea. So it marries up really well with the perspective that we're doing. And, we found a photo and, you know, kind of of a community that we knew. And, but it, you know, these types of projects, you know, have some, some important steps, in terms of programming, but at the same time as the programming is essential, it's also helping folks realize how we as design professionals can approach a space like this. Mm-hmm. and it doesn't have to be like, oh, well yeah, we have to, you know, put in a flat floor for the whole thing. And, you know, and it's just sort of like stacking, you know, You know, layers of cake or something like that. there's some dyna, there's some dynamism in the section, and kind of carving of the space that. You know, it is really kind of present in the sketch, in, in both the entourage, but also the little things that you were just picking up on the feature wall and you know, which is only a couple little lines. but you, you get that impression of what, what that is. There's a familiarity about it. Mm-hmm.

Kurt:

Yeah. Yeah. One other thing I was gonna say, and, and I think I could be sort of wrapped up, if, if you're ready, but the idea. Is, is it? It reminds me all the way back to my first day of first year and my studio instructor asked everybody in the studio, and I probably, we've talked about this before, he asked everybody what we think architecture is like, what is the role of architect, what is architecture? And we all come up with our answers, right? Which none of us. What his notion was, you know, we're all saying, oh, designing buildings, or designing houses or designing, you know, space, you know, different kinds of commercial buildings, things like that. And his aim, his, what he was driving at is that architecture is designing space in that it's not the physical object, but it's the space created. by shaping, you're using these physical objects to basically shape the air, right? This, the space, the volume, it's very abstract. I guess it sounds abstract when I, when I say it, but, so this, you know, this building is a, a little sliver of a downtown, which is like you said, A container. So then how do you reimagine? Yeah, so that's the, the beauty of the architecture in the sketch is that it's, that is it's, it's taken this rectangular box and then repurpose the, in, you know, this in indoor environment into a very dynamic, multifunctional space, like you said, where it needs to kind of, In order to be viable, sort of re respond to the various activity levels, things like that. So, so anyway, I think that's kind of what it reminds me of. And I think why I say that is just going back to first year sound may sound. I mean we, we've been doing this for 20 plus years, but sometimes it is inspiring to just kind of go back to. The fundamental and core ideas of what we're trying to achieve when we look at a building or look at a site or something like that.

Jamie:

So as you say, sort of going back in the, in the way back and kind of going back to the fundamentals, I, I was gonna save this for the next episodes, but I'm gonna tease it in this one. cause I have a prop, and this, that we can close out on this and, and cut to the, the outro. This is, yeah, this is a. This is the Sketchbook project, which I have not necessarily talked about on the podcast, but, this book is like 10 years old. AC no older than that. so it is 12, almost 13 years old. and, it went away, to, a special project and then toured the country, toured the country for a while. and then there's a, there's a library that, that had all these books, that had come in from all over the world. It was just sort of a fun thing that I was excited to. you know, I'll talk about it some more. Maybe show, you know, maybe do a reel and kind of show it fast or something like that. but the, I read, I keep up with them, you know, occasionally and fortunately happened to see a post of theirs, earlier this year that, I knew that they had had a fire. and in, in their library, in their gallery. And I didn't even want to check to see if, like, and ask if, if my book was like burned in the fi. I just didn't even wanna know. and. when I saw this post, they were saying that they're officially closing. and they found some homes for the books, but it just didn't sound like it sounded very, very sad. and so, I just, at that point I inquired and asked like, was mine burned in the fire? You know, is it still there? and because they were saying if you want it back, You know, if you want your book back, you know, get in touch. And, so I got it back. That's great. Which was pretty exciting. that's cool. And, and then what's funny is, like I had, I had accepted the fact this is Zuko. I had accepted the fact that, you know, the book was gone like, like, you know, it was living somewhere else. I had like parted with it. I was happy with. As an art piece. other people were enjoying it. it was part of this collection. and then the fire that was very I just, I'm not even sure what to, like, can't even imagine no words for that. yeah. But yeah, so I have, so I have it back. So I, and it's, it's a, it's a very, it's a strange feeling, having something like that. You. it was an interesting project, so it's, it's, it's one that I'm kind of looking at and thinking, about, you know, you know, making this, you know, when I did so.

Kurt:

Yeah. Right. I mean, it could be a fun one if we did our re re, dust off our old lightning round.

Jamie:

Hmm. Our

Kurt:

liking round concept, given that it's been out of your hands for so long Right. And now returned back to you. I mean, and, and so yeah, that could be a. That'd be cool. Well find right now

Jamie:

somewhere to repurpose it. Well, thanks. This has been fun.