110 - Billboard Architecture, Historic Preservation, or Both

Kurt: 0:32

Hey, Jamie. How's it going?

Jamie: 0:35

Good morning, episode one 10. That's right, it's with your pipe, with your piping hot coffee this morning.

Kurt: 0:45

Uhoh.

Jamie: 0:46

There you go. Yeah. Yeah. You gets a,

Kurt: 0:49

it's the, you know, I wanna, I want to at least say why it stays hot is, this is part of my Christmas gift, so this is a mug and it came with this heating element. USB heating element. So it, I think it has like something that, you know, induction heating or whatever. So I put it on this thing and it, it keeps

Jamie: 1:15

it warm. It makes me think of that song, fire Starter

Kurt: 1:20

I love that song. Yes, I love Prodigy. Yes. Yeah, man, I wanted to be Prodigy so bad when I was a kid. I mean, it's about the smoke rebellion, like our generational approach. There

Jamie: 1:35

was to, there was a lot of ang, a lot of angst in there. Yes. Yeah.

Kurt: 1:38

Yeah. I, and it doesn't, I, it always surprises me there that I think most of'em are still alive, you know, it's a lot of intensity there.

Jamie: 1:48

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of intensity with that for sure. So, what is, what is in your U S B heated Fire Hazard Coffee mug? In the great white north,

Kurt: 2:01

I believe it actually

Jamie: 2:02

does have a safety feature. Okay. That

Kurt: 2:05

will turn off after a certain length of time and, or I don't think it has a scale. That would be cool though, if it felt less empty. But, it's actually a interesting blend, I believe. So we use this service called Misfits Market, and so like organic fruit and veggies and things that are, a little lumpy looking, right. You know, they're a little, the misfits in the bunch. 10, you know, I don't know if, if you're aware of this, but supermarkets tend to chuck them out cuz the, the, the, the vast majority of, shoppers don't like to look at ugly fruit. I hate to, I hate to break it to you. it's kind of sad, but, A company called Misfits Market has, collects all these and then sells'em at a little bit of a discount and ships it to your door. So we use that. And then, but you can also add in some other things and like, so in this case, the coffee, we got some coffee that is intelligentsia coffee, but they sort of repackage it, I think. And so they blend some beans together. It's not like straight, you know, brew of or, or roast of one kind or another. And they call it odds and ends and it's, but it's intelligent. It was pretty good. It's, you know, hey, in the, in the vein of sustainability and reducing waste to the, to the, to the globe, that's, I can definitely support that with a nice hot cup of coffee. So, That's my, my plug of the day.

Jamie: 3:49

Cheers. Cheers to that.

Kurt: 3:50

Yeah. I hope I You didn't, you weren't prepared

Jamie: 3:54

for that one, huh? I was not prepared for that one. No, certainly not. but you, but you're,

Kurt: 3:58

you're aware that Kurt and Danielle are very.

Jamie: 4:01

oh, no, absolutely. And I, and I have heard of that company, and mm-hmm. or like, if it's not them, it's somebody that's doing what they're doing. and so yeah, people around the company do that. I think it's, yeah, I think it's really kind of interesting. and they have definitely some interesting marketing. but, yeah, so yeah, from a, from a coffee standpoint, I will say that, I did pick up, I did find, it, like, it, like it, there's always just like one bag too of the, the Timmy's. I found some more Timmy's in the store, and so I was, you know, nostalgia is, is strong. Yeah, I, I mean, I was. gonna get any coffee. and I'm just getting some stuff at the market and saw it, it's like, as if it had been placed on the shelf just for me. so yeah, I, I ended up picking that up, so, ah, but, and on, on a side note, I've also, no noticed that Rootless had done a, a kind of an interesting promotion here recently where they were, you know, they were actually sketching on their bags. So I don't know if that means that they're getting closer and closer to that coffee sketch roast, but it, it really seems like they're, you know, They're trying to, they're trying to tell me something through the, the interwebs.

Kurt: 5:30

Good. Yeah, actually good find, I saw another post that they did. So they are, you know, what's fun about them? And let me throw up this little caption. For those that are interested in some local flint coffee, they, they, they have affinity toward art. You know, they, all their bags are decorated with, a custom design label, by different artists. And this year at Valentine's, they decided to, sketch on top of the empty or un unlabeled bags for a limited time So it, it's a good reminder though, I will have to reach out to Sean and Jano and and see where we are with some coffee, sketch coffee.

Jamie: 6:18

Yeah, cuz I mean, I think this is, you know, that might be the one little push that we need to do. Like, you know, I, I have visions of a sketch together where there's, you know, cuz we have done that in the past where I have sketched something or Lar you've sketched something and sent it to me and I've sketched over the top of it and then, and vice versa. So, I, I, I see that as a, a rootless future. Oh

Kurt: 6:49

yeah. Very be good idea. You're full of good ideas today, Jamie.

Jamie: 6:53

Yeah. I don't know. It's, it's the coffee, it's the Timmy's. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna

Kurt: 6:57

it up. Timmy, you know, reminds me of Tim Horton. So you've been to, I mean, you must have been to Tim Horton's Oh yeah, yeah. When you're up, when you're up near Homeland Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember the, the sort of, giveaway that they do? they do, like, you know, like McDonald, every, all the fast food chains, they do like some sort of promotional giveaways and prize thing, right. And Tim Hortons has the roll up, the cup, the, maybe they don't do that or it's been a while, but they have a, so the, you know, the paper cup, you roll up the, the lip of the cup and, and your prize will be listed underneath So, you know, as you're drinking, you know, and you wear it down and it gets a little damp from the, you know, heated. And anyway,

Jamie: 7:49

I feel the vi the visual of you trying to, you know, imagine rolling up a cup and then describing it has just been, that's like comedy gold right there.

Kurt: 8:01

You're gonna, you're gonna have to Google it. Yeah. But I will, I, I will see, say that there's no data behind this, but I feel like the chances of winning. with Tim Horton's is more likely than any other chain, prize campaign because Canadians

Jamie: 8:22

are generous. People. We're just generous. Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll go with that. now, now not being generous is I'm gonna, you know, kind of here's my little segue is today, this morning, even though, we are gonna talk the big Super Bowl, and on some predictions mm-hmm. I did watch the other football this morning and Wow. Right. so Manchester United, was, and this is a, this is a me generously, you know, acknowledging. a, a friend of ours, someone that we admire, Peter Exley, past president of the American Institute of Architects, has probably, one of the best suit collections of, of an architect that, that we probably know. Good table. Yeah. And his, yeah, and his firm architecture is fun. is I think, you know, pretty great. but, probably sad face today for, for Peter because Man menu went to leads. and yeah, we kind of won big, so.

Kurt: 9:34

Wow. What was the, what was the final two? Nothing. No, two N. Yeah, right.

Jamie: 9:43

Oh, okay. Wow.

Kurt: 9:45

Do that now. Yeah, you gotta do the Ted lasso that's, you know, too nil Wow. That's, that's pretty, it's pretty substantial and

Jamie: 9:55

yeah, well they're, they're, they're, they're having a little trouble this year. So, they're almost in a reg relegation battle and without, without a manager, they sack their manager. they haven't replaced him. Most clubs, food for thought, you know, when they're gonna sack somebody, they usually have kind of a backup plan or some plan in place. so it looks like they're having a little difficulty with that. But they've got, I mean, what's fun is that they are a fun, they are a fun club to watch on the pitch. and they definitely bring it, in terms of energy. And they have quite a few Americans. so they've got quite a few Americans that they've picked up, and who are playing well. So, that's, that's the other football for, for this morning. but, Jamie very happy and Peter, Peter, Peter, very sad but, so what's your, let's talk predictions. Let's, let's do it. Yeah. Let's, let's

Kurt: 10:50

into it. You know, so as, as you know, and many of our, our friends and listeners know, I'm from the East coast, so there's always a little gravity around east coast sports. the Eagles, however, are a interesting bunch, and they're fan base is an interesting bunch. Yes. And maybe it's because I'm far enough away from the gravitational pole of, of Philadelphia and, you know, I grew up in Connecticut, but you know, there's definitely a lot of Eagle fans up there. However, It's kind of, it's, it's probably more, maybe not so many public Eagles fans because of, you know, New York Jets, giants, you know, so patriots if you, you know, extend your reach that far. But anyway, I'm gonna, I'm gonna predict the Eagles to win the Super Bowl, the birds man, because I, I, I enjoy the intensity of their fan base. And, they, they're, they, they put

Jamie: 11:58

on a good show. Do we get a score prediction? Do we get a score prediction as well? Let's, let's, let's, let's

Kurt: 12:04

go score prediction. NFL scores are really difficult to let's say 27 14.

Jamie: 12:13

It's pretty, it's a, it's a pretty big ask. That's a, that's a big, that's a big, that's a big ask. That's, that's like, It's a heavy lift. Yeah.

Kurt: 12:23

I mean, I mean, we have no money online, so, you know. No, no. Unless, unless to put dollars online.

Jamie: 12:31

No, there's, there's, there's no gambling involved other than make heavy coffee gambling. Yeah. We'll do coffee gambling. Mm. How

Kurt: 12:37

about that? I can score you if, if, if, let's see. So if, if, well let's, we should go through your prediction.

Jamie: 12:45

Okay. So my predictions like is that, I am sorry equals fans, we will, like, this is the point of the show where like there will no longer be subscribers from Philadelphia. Like if there, if there were, cuz you know, there's always those teams that are the villains for you in the league. You know, whatever kind of thing that you're kind of into. There's always that team, you know, that's, you know, our player that's a villain, I admit. I do like their quarterback. and some of the players on the team, you know, are, you know, I, I will, you know, I'll leave it there. I think Jalen Hertz is, is kind of a, you know, he's fun to watch. but, and so I think the game is gonna be fun. but yeah, Eagles not, not the thing that, not for Jamie. and, and, and not to mention the fact that they knocked out my Niners. so, so, so there is that, but that is not, the, on, that is not the only reason. cuz usually I'm kind of more of an NFC guy than a AFC guy. but yeah, Eagles, yeah, I'm not gonna root for the Eagles. That's just that, that's just a, that's a no-go, that's a non-starter. but I will admit that they are gonna score some points today. So, so I am, I'm going with Patrick Mahomes, and the Kansas City Chiefs, to win. Patrick got the MVP apparently. I didn't catch that. Oh, yeah. This, this week, this week was the honors week. Right. So they did all the honors. but yeah, I'm, I'm going, 31 29. Ooh.

Kurt: 14:17

Right. Keeping

Jamie: 14:18

it close. Keeping it close, but down to the wire. I, I think that there's, there's a, you know, yeah. Gonna be kind of an interesting score,

Kurt: 14:28

both numbers, you know. So 27, what did I say? 27? 14, yeah. 31, 29. Yeah. In both cases they involve the kicker. Yes. Oh yeah. That three point game is, is gonna be key Yeah. So, so the, so then we've got our dia diametrically opposed predictions. Our, our conflict. So now we need to, we need to. Put some skin in the game, coffee related. So if, if the Eagles win, does that mean you have to gift me something?

Jamie: 15:15

I need to send you some coffee

Kurt: 15:17

and then if the, the, the Chiefs win? I will. So my, so if, if, if the Chiefs win, I will try and score you a custom sketched bag of rootless coffee and it might have to say, you know, boohoo birds or

Jamie: 15:36

something. Okay. Okay.

Kurt: 15:40

And then if the Eagles win.

Jamie: 15:42

If the eagles win, hmm.

Kurt: 15:53

Gotta, well, if you need to think about it.

Jamie: 15:56

I need to think about it cuz I like, I think like, yeah. I mean, well maybe, maybe by the end of the show like I'll have come up with, but I, I mean cuz there's so many good like purveyors, local roasters that I think that maybe that's it. Maybe it, okay. So it's gonna be like a, I think you, yeah, you'll get two bags of, some and flavors that you've not had yet. There you go. Cuz I, I know what we have, we have, you know, done the care packages from time to time. Yeah. And then

Kurt: 16:32

I'll have to take two both flavors and mix'em

Jamie: 16:35

together. Yeah. Because that's apparently the thing now. Right.

Kurt: 16:37

That's what I do. It's the odds. Odds and ends Yeah.

Jamie: 16:40

It's the odds and ends. Okay.

Kurt: 16:42

So you wanna, you wanna, we should mo move to our sketch sketches for today? Yes. All right. Should we just reveal them all at once? Yeah,

Jamie: 16:53

why not?

Kurt: 16:54

Okay, we'll start, we'll start here. If I went to this screen, oh, it highlights, hold on. How do you like that? Musical chairs, You don't like that? I know you don't.

Jamie: 17:10

Yeah. I'm not, not a fan. A professional, not fan of this. Yeah. It's like, this is like, it's kind of like very unbalanced. Kind

Kurt: 17:18

of weird. It, well, you know, I can move people around, but I'm not gonna do that cuz that might make your mad. Okay. Unless you want the drawing down here. That's, that's about I'll do, I'll just stop there. Okay. You just stopped. I might, yeah. I might offend Jamie to, to the, to a degree where he just leaves No, no. And we won't find out, you know what, what coffees, I'm gonna get right, because the Eagles

Jamie: 17:46

will win. It's not gonna happen, buddy.

Kurt: 17:52

Oh, this is gonna be fun. I gotta find somewhere to go to watch the game. Usually some neighbors pull together a a little casual viewing party, but I haven't, I'm still waiting for that text. I hopefully I didn't get excluded from the, the neighborhood. I,

Jamie: 18:10

I think, I think you got ex I I think it's, you know, well, I mean, the game isn't till later, so, I mean, you got a while.

Kurt: 18:17

You got a while. There's, there's,

Jamie: 18:19

yeah, there's hours, left hours.

Kurt: 18:23

You know, I just wanna point out we have, we have a, a, a viewer or two, so, you know, if you wanna say anything polite, Jamie?

Jamie: 18:32

Well, if, if they're from Philadelphia or if they're rooting for the Eagles. I'm sorry. there's, there's, and there's where the accent comes in. Yep.

Kurt: 18:41

is that, is that to be, to be cute so that they feel bad for you? A little bit.

Jamie: 18:46

No. The accent No. Well, yeah, I mean, if it's like, it's like when the Canadians sort of insult you, you know, or insult your team. Like we're trying to be as polite about it as possible. Right, right. So they're kind people. Kind people. So,

Kurt: 19:01

well welcome to anyone watching live, and if you have any questions, throw'em in the chat

Jamie: 19:08

and yeah, as, as, as Kurt has the screen all goofed up, so, you know, who knows where those questions will pop up,

Kurt: 19:15

but, oh, I, I'll let you know. I'll surprise you. So there's some interesting sketch sketches plus photograph. The photograph came from me, the sketches came from Jamie. And, should you, should we just go left to right? Sure. And then we can zoom in a little bit and, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's what, maybe we should switch it to like this view before I really. tick Jamie off. Oops. There we go. How about that? Get a little bigger screen.

Jamie: 19:49

Yeah. Makes it easier. And so,

Kurt: 19:52

so start off, tell us a little bit about the left hand sketch, which then when, when we were setting this thing up, caused me to think about this particular building in the middle that I hope people are scratching their head over.

Jamie: 20:07

I'm hoping there's a good story about that tangy crab. So

Kurt: 20:13

I would Oh, there is, there's okay.

Jamie: 20:15

There's for sure because it, it definitely sparks some, and I mean, and I love it that there's like this little tiny person on a bike, like just sort of, just, just sneaking by Yeah. For skill but yeah, no, I, I, I did the first sketch, as, part of it was sort of some in situ notes, from a, from a location, And so this is an actual building, and an actual, location, here in Texas. and one of the things that, that I encounter a lot in my work and, and Kurt and I've talked about this a little bit too, is sort of the idea of interventions on buildings and helping folks realize how to save aspects of the materials within them. so talk about it as sort of integrity of a building and not just integrity from the standpoint of the structural systems and, and whether or not, you know, building is, coming down. having some issues, but also sort of the integrity of, of keeping the, the, the interesting features that make a place special. and so there's some, some dialogue with both of those things within this sketch. and I, and in particular, what I was also trying to ex to kind of explore, and sort of making some more mental notes for myself and getting them down on the page is what you sort of see down at the bottom is sort of this plan kind of isometric view, kind of exploded Axo, and then some detail work as well as the perspectival image of the interior of the. and for, for those that, you know, kind of listening to the listening, and, and not necessarily seeing is the, the sketch is, you know, the perspective sketch sort of dominates, the page. It's, it's trying to capture the essence of that space. And it is the first one that's done, it's, you know, in sort of taking the notes is, is how do, how do you and dropping kind of those ghost-like people in there for scale. so that somebody kind of realizes how you can kind of inhabit this, this space or this zone. but then explore this idea of what happens when you have a building that the roof is caving in and you know, it's a building on a block and it's got neighbors and it's got party walls. what, you know, what do you do? You know, what do you do as a designer, as an architect, as as an, as a property owner, as a contractor, to kind of imagine what that space could be, and then how do you explain it to everybody so that everybody's on the same page as you're talking about it, literally. And so that's what the sketches is really trying to get at, is getting everybody to see what, in your own mind's eye as a designer, you're starting to imagine as the possibility.

Kurt: 23:14

That's, that's excellent. And I, I hope, and I would imagine that the, the 2D and 3D diagramming you did at the bottom, helped people visualize plus the, the perspectival sketch. But I mean, I'm, I'm, I really like the, the, the plan with the grid and then the structural skeleton cage. That's kind of like getting inserted. you know, the X and atric sketch that you put in the middle to show plus cross bracing, lateral lateral resistance. Gotta gotta remember lateral forces. But the you know, just the inserting that into the, the container and it, you know, there, it reminds me of, there is another building in Detroit, not this one here, but, you know, the pres trying to preserve a facade and they built a scaffold of steel behind just the front facade to preserve until, you know, future, you know, renovation or, rehabilitation could occur. But yeah, so I mean, it's a little bit different to the building on the right in this, you know, your sketch to, to the project that I was, or this building that I pulled in here. But I, you know, I've, I've told some people around town that this is like my favorite building in Flint just because of the oddity of this billboard and the structure that needing to support this billboard that sits, or, you know, stretches across like a cage on the outside of the existing building, as opposed to your sketches going from the inside. But this, this particular building, the, the downstairs is actually a motorcycle shop, and then the, the tangy crab is actually like across the street. So this is more like an advertisement to say, go to the tanky crab. but this thing is, it's a, it's a, a steel structure of, of, of, of just, just to support this billboard. And I've never. Yet, I haven't yet figured out the why or, you know, when this thing was created. But I guess why I, why I like it is that it sort of reminds me of like old Archie Graham things, you know, these sort of the super studio and the,

Jamie: 25:41

it's like a walker. It's like, it's like, you know, it, it's, it's almost like this. You could imagine that this exoskeleton, has sort of like walked up and sort of decided to, to park itself, in and around this building. it it, it also has sort of a, LEAs LEAs, woods sort of fever, dream, approach to it. Like, you know, if he was into marketing, like if he was sort of like helping with the marketing campaign, like, oh, I've got a mar, I've got an idea for you. let me, let me show you how to do a billboard

Kurt: 26:19

well, you know what's funny, they bring it up marketing wise is on the left with your sketch. You're trying to express like how to preserve an existing building with a bad roof, which is very common. You know, the party walls are using masonry. The roofs were used used to be built in wood and they tend to rot and fall apart and, and, you know, over, over the years. And so using, some modern techniques to, to repurpose an existing building. But then on the right hand side, it's not, this is not a historic structure that I am aware of, but the steel in this case are to support commercial endeavor Right. This very different. Right.

Jamie: 27:06

Well, I mean, and even as you're, look, even as I'm looking at this building in Flint, it's. you know, there's certain things about it that you can see that, you know, the building has had, things done to it over time, you know, which is really, really common, you know, and, you know, people will throw around the term adaptive reuse. And I think the, the, you know, and, and this is like the fancy word, but you know, the juxtaposition of old against new, in terms of material, when it's done really, really well. and there's a sensitivity to, you know, and, and when I say sensitivity, I think it's, it's a distinctness so that you distinctly see one time period next to distinctly seeing something from a different time. and that both things can be read at the same time and then it becomes like a collage. and if it's balanced properly, if it, if, if one doesn't sort of overtake the other in a, in a way, I think that there's, that, there's some beauty in that. by the same token though, as we're, as we're sort of staring at these two buildings, it, it does sort of this LEAs woods sort of fever dream super studio, you know, that has encapsulated, this small little container in Flint. you know, at the same time they, they aren't touching the building. And so that there's, there is something like really beautiful about it. Like you say, it's like your favorite building. I could imagine someone kind of coming in and doing some additional work to the, the container. You know, the box within the, within the structure now. and, and finding ways to kind of almost have a dialogue, an even an even stronger dialogue between the exoskeleton and, and the, the bike shop that's sort of inside it. Yeah,

Kurt: 29:07

yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. Thanks. Thanks. I, I do, that's why I do appreciate it is the, the, the vis the visibility of the old and the new that are occurring. And also, I, I wonder even how, and this is more of like zoning or ownership is like, who owns the steel? Does the building owner or is he selling his air rights, what we call air rights above the building, to the billboard company, to then, you know, plant, plant, this structure around it. It could be, you know, I keep, I always keep my eye on this billboard. I've always wanted to talk about, about it with you because it's so,

Jamie: 29:51

odd. But, well, I mean, and billboards, I mean, as a, I mean, you know, that's like a podcast and a half Yeah. You know, like the whole concept of, of roadside architecture and billboards and the, you know, you know, there's those, those images where're like, oh, this is the suburbanization of, of America. And it's like, you know, the road and it's got a billion, you know, billboards and signs and everything. Look, you, you don't know where you are. I'm not talking necessarily about that. I think that the idea of, billboards, air rights, the, it's not even just the air rights, it's actually the location of where those billboards are. Cuz it's like some cities will. when you kind of dig into it a little bit, they put moratoriums on the mm-hmm. on the amount of billboards. so then you have these locations that are, grandfathered in, you know, that are, you know, historic in a sense, that they've been, they've been there for so long. and somebody's holding onto that, that billboard and trying to maintain it. you know, this one, you know, this place definitely has a story and I think that that's part of it. I think that's part of the appeal, right? Is that, like you say this, there's this building, there's this kind of crazy exoskeleton billboard, that looks like it's trying to almost be sort of parasitic to it, to the building itself. I mean, there's a story there. I mean, somebody spent a lot of time figuring out how to achieve this, Aesthetic, you know, around this building. It was very deliberate, clearly very deliberate, a little bit overbuilt, just, just a little bit.

Kurt: 31:34

Yeah, we don't have a lot of seismic concerns in

Jamie: 31:37

Michigan. Right, right. Yeah. This, yeah, this billboard isn't going anywhere, folks. for those who can't see the photo, we'll, we'll definitely have it in the show notes, but, well, we

Kurt: 31:45

do have wind, wind, you know, and uplift and this, that, you know, that, the billboard itself is facing, pretty much northwest, so kind of the prevailing wind. I mean if if you were, because this would be, if you're driving east into, into downtown, and it's kinda like, so that would be like the most severe wind angle that you would. which probably requires the most steel, but maybe, like you said, it is a little over overbuilt

Jamie: 32:15

but the perfect marketing for this, for this restaurant. So,

Kurt: 32:19

I mean, it does change, you know, the Billboard graphic does change from, I

Jamie: 32:24

I, I want it to be the same forever. Like, cuz this just, it's, it's as if, as if they said, can we have a billboard that looks like a crab walker? Like who has just That's perfect. Yeah.

Kurt: 32:40

That's right. Yeah. And they totally,

Jamie: 32:43

the tank crab, like if I was helping them with their marketing, I, I just, I feel, I feel like I really hope it's a good restaurant. that's good. And I'm not, and they need to buy this building, like they need to put their restaurant in this building, cuz that would be amazing.

Kurt: 32:58

And then paint the structure red.

Jamie: 33:01

And then just do everything like Yeah. About the red steel syn synthesis of the two things. O

Kurt: 33:09

would, would, you know, Robert Venturi and Denise Scott Brown, would they, would they put claws

Jamie: 33:16

there? Might be there. Maybe

Kurt: 33:18

this is not a duck and then this is not a crap

Jamie: 33:21

Yeah, this, I think, I think this is a duck. this is not a decorated shed so

Kurt: 33:28

Oh yeah. It's a fun parallel, you know, anyway, I don't mean to be too, too jokey about it, but it is, a lot of interesting aspects of it. You know, I'm going to keep track of this building and, you know, if, if Mike's motorcycle ever wants to sell, you know, see what he wants for it and

Jamie: 33:50

get my hands. I'm saying rootless coffee. You know, if you're listening, you know, you might be getting a sketch of the tangy crab exoskeleton Bike Shop, remodel Fever, dream of Kurt and Jamie's Super Studio. All of the Italians

Kurt: 34:12

well, they are looking to expand, so maybe they need to, also look out for, for this spot. So, so here's my fun segue to, we, we, we also wanted to bring this drawing in of, of Jamie's, which is a little bit more description of adaptive reuse, right? Of an existing building that you're working on with. Texas Soci or Texas Historic District Commission. Right. The main Street architects. So what's the, what's going on? I'll zoom in a little bit and,

Jamie: 34:48

yeah, so this is a, a different city. but again, a situation where property owner has a building on a corner and is trying to, understand what the possibilities of the building are. and I think for, for me, as I was talking to them about the program that they were trying to think through and, wonder about as options for the building, it really became evident that this, this was a design about section. So it was, you know, the, the floor plates. Where the floor plates, but thinking about the building. Less about what happens on the first floor and what happens on the second floor, but what was, how do you start to break down the first floor so that you can kind of do two different things? so this, this building gets, designed in section, as opposed to with, with two fronts. and everything sort of interlocking in space, in a, in a fairly tight footprint. It had alley access, also has the side. parking wasn't an issue. so there, you know, certainly things that are. Parameters that oftentimes, you know, don't allow for some of these kind of interventions. Those weren't issues in this particular case. Mm-hmm. you know, also from a development standpoint, this downtown district was really trying to activate the backside of these buildings, because, because of some other proximity to a farmer's market that they had. so, you know, this building has been sitting vacant for 20 years mm-hmm. so, you know, getting a new, getting an old historic building back online is, you know, objective one. And then property owners sort of exploring, well, I'm not sure I have a tenant, or a, or concept that would take over the entirety of the volume. So what can I do? and what are the possibilities to make it attractive, you know, both for, you know, other businesses to come in if they're sort of developing it for them. But then also, you know, working within the parameters of the building itself. this had been, a bank with a corner entry. and over time somebody had, and you could sort of see in that sort of series of sketches, that they had reoriented the door. So the upper left hand corner of the page, they had reoriented the door to the middle on the front facade. and then, you know, there's a sketch sort of below it where I'm sort of exploring this idea of section and kind of where some existing, dem devising walls for their front lobby to their backup house spaces were. but you sort of see the, it, it, it's, it has a fairly straightforward three bay. That are fairly equalized on, on the front, but have, there's some underlying, just like we saw with the, the building in Flint, there's some underlying texture and other architectural elements that you can still see. They're still evident. They haven't been completely covered up cuz it's a mason rebuilding. but there's some clues in there that it's like, well maybe this building sitting on the corner of this street that's been here for almost a hundred years, you know, maybe it had a corner entry, maybe, maybe the building itself started to respond to its environment. And sure enough, you know, doing a little research, she kind of realized that kind of, and that those openings are still there. They've just been closed in so, starts to unlock, a response at the front, makes the building kind of inviting as it sort of turns the corner and then starts to suggest something in the back as well. so there, there was some exterior treatments in the sketches as well as reinforcing for the owner, this idea of interlocking spaces inside the box. So it's not just all surface treatments, which you often see in, renderings or, you know, quick blush, design concepts for, for properties in a downtown district is like, oh yeah, well here's, here's how to make the doors work. Here's how to make the windows work. Here's where the sign or the canopy should go. Mm-hmm. call it a day. This was, let's, let's dig just one, one level deeper. and, and think about this building, you know, and then that's why the perspective in this case is actually at the bottom of the page was, you know, The diagram started the discussion, and then the perspective was like, you know, here's where it starts. All those pieces start to come together. and trying to describe it for somebody,

Kurt: 39:44

the, you know, the corner buildings, especially historic corner buildings are, can be tricky too because, you know, you, you have now two, well, two to three of the four facades available to be, you know, opened up or, you know, more visible or some more transparent. And, you know, if you, I don't know from my experience when dealing with clients interested in things like this, say they wanted to put a restaurant or in there, but they, they, they, I want a lot of, I want all this glass. I know it all up. I mean, aside from the historic, like there's some limitations historically that you would want to be careful of, but then functionally, right? You know, commercial, kitchen, bathrooms, storage, janitors, closet, all those mechanical components, take up space that you don't necessarily wanna expose with Windows so becomes right a challenge when, you know, when trying to, respect the existing envelope. You know, the footprint is probably looks pretty compact, so there's minimal, like it's not a very large space, so you're kind of cons constrained in that manner too. So, Anyway, those are just things that I think of, you know, it's always tough to like say, well, if you want all these things, like we may not have as much room for glass and things like that. Well,

Jamie: 41:16

you know, and, and it's funny too is that it's, as you sort of described that, that's, you, that that's sort of the everywhere discussion for some of these downtown, you know, districts, as a designer kind of coming into that conversation. And sometimes you have to sort of tell people kind of the hard reality of, you know, maybe what you wanna do in this building, this isn't the right building for you. Yeah. it's not that your concept, your restaurant concept or you know your program is wrong, but is, you know, kind of getting to the point of saying, you know, don't force that square peg into the round hole. I mean, it's just like, and, and what you described about that side condition, I think that was the fear. From the city's perspective was that somebody's gonna buy this building and they're gonna, because of its location, is they're going to, you know, wanna open up the whole thing and, you know, tear out down the side and start, you know, putting all this glazing in. But when you start to think about it like, well what, what used Stu put in there? If you do, if you do something, the building isn't deep enough, you know, to do, to do all those things. and then from a structural point of view, now you're having to really do some gymnastics, you know, as you're making the building that's been there for so long, structurally. inadequate for that, for, for the conversion that you're proposing. you're, you're going to have to add so much steel, you know, into it to start blowing through those openings and, and creating all these glazing opportunities that really aren't necessary. And now you're, you're making, you're, you are forcing your concept into something that really shouldn't be it. and so I think what's backing that out sort of as a conversation is, I think, and we haven't necessarily talked about it too much on, on the podcast before, but I think it's something sort of worth saying is historic preservation gets a bad rap, because of exactly what we're talking about, you know, more, more often than not. and it's not pointed out in this kind of a way is it's not that. your economic development idea or your entrepreneurial idea is a bad one or is being discouraged? sometimes it is being discouraged. You know, I mean, it, you know, it, it is being discouraged, you know, by permanent officials, development fees, you know, red tape, you know, all these kinds of, yes, totally agree. all those things happen, and then, and put a bad light on, you know, a, a situation and make it difficult for folks to, to, to, to pursue their dreams. But really, oftentimes, you know, when folks are, you know, more often not the, the underlying message in some of this is, some of those ideas aren't, you know, you're, you're not putting it in the right place. you know, you're in, you're recog, you know, as a designer is recognizing somebody's investing all this money. You wanna help them invest it pro, you know, Well, it's, yes, let's use these existing buildings for these ideas. Absolutely. But let's not pick the building that it, this shouldn't happen in and try and force it to, or change all that stuff and spend all this money making all those kinds of changes when you go down to the next block and there's another building that might be in a much better location, for, for the thing that you're trying to do. Granted, it's not the, the, the corner, you know, street corner or something like that. But, you know, I think those are some of the realities that preservationists sort of, don't necessarily recognize, that they're sort of. other competing objectives, or they don't want to speak to them, they speak to them more from the, no, you need to preserve this building element. And they start, you know, sort of stepping it into more of a theoretical kind of discussion as opposed to, yeah, you know, comfortably talk comfortably talking about both things at the same time. like we can multitask, you know, like, you know, as you know, as designers we can, we can, we can do hard things, you know, we can do both things at the same time. So, yeah.

Kurt: 45:51

And it, it reminds me of like, this may not be an exact, quote, but you know, the, the Lewis Lewis Kahn quote of like, brick, what do you want to be asking the brick, what it wants to be, and kind of like asking these old buildings, what do you. Want to be now that your purpose will change. And instead of the client or the building owner saying, I'm gonna make it this. And, and then the last thing I'll say is, well,

Jamie: 46:26

and before, before you get to the last thing, I love that. I love that you bring it up that way because, you know, here, you know, Louis Conn, arguably one of the best American architects, you know, you know, troubled individual, you know, but a educator, a theoretician, and executed some amazing buildings. and when he's speaking about that, I think that people write that kind of comment off as architects or designers being kind of flippant, you know, and sort of theoretical about, you know, what does the brick wanna be. But I think the way you, you, you couch it there, you know, in this conversation is absolutely right. It's like, you know, what should be going in these buildings? Like why aren't, why aren't communities having more of those conversations, as opposed to, oh, well, you know, we wanna have this, we wanna have this. And they look at their downtown and they can't imagine it. They can't get from what they want to, what they see. And so they're like, well, what we see what we gotta get rid of that to, to get what we want. And it's like, no, like, let's let, let's try a little harder. Just a little.

Kurt: 47:37

Well, I think too, the last thing I was gonna say is that, thinking back to when I was a student, since I'm teaching students right now, and so I kind of see a lot of these intu or their tuition is starting off in certain area. for example, they, they kind of think of like curtain walls, right? And, and big, big expanses of glass. And think that's like, you know, the way to get light into the building is like walls of glass. And I think I did the same thing when I was a student. but as I have if grown in this posi profession, you know, especially with a, an, an older building or a building with a, a sort of, you know, a brick or masonry construction that has, you know, this sensation of mass, you know, or it's not sensation, but a, an appearance of mass, right? Weight, physical weight, you know, well placed, punched, opening, which what we call, so curtain wall, wall of glass, punched, opening, you know, single window, right? A fixed or operable window. But it's a, a sort of, Whole cut in the wall versus taking the wall out. And so, you know, especially when, when going back and forth, like we've talked about section and plan and elevation, you know, if you go back and forth, if a window is placed or a couple of windows placed in the right location where it accentuates aspects of the floor plan and illuminates the space in very controlled manner, can conserve much better than just doing a whole wall of glass where there's no definition or variation in space. Things like that. And and now that I've done what I teach is a little bit of techno, you know, I have this technology component where we can do some daylight analysis with software and you would be surprised that, a couple of smaller punched openings provide. A lot more light than you would think where you don't need that wallow class. And sometimes it might be smart to use that, that data to show clients like, here is the actual condition that you're gonna get. It's not gonna be as dark as you think. You don't need that wallow class. So anyway, that's, just, just some food for thought and things. Oh, it's almost like a, my, a reminder to myself to, to use those and this as an example, for other projects. So, thanks, Janie.

Jamie: 50:23

Thanks, man. Yeah, I, I think that the, I think sort of turning the page on this one, but it's, I think that that technology component, that extra analysis, that you're talking about is sort of the next, you know, would be the next step in a project like this. and making sure, especially as. Somebody might be trying to, you know, convince somebody beyond the conversation that you're in, in the moment. You know, there's always multiple parties that are sort of, you know, at play. you know, both of us have had, you know, plenty of situations where somebody's like, well, I want to go talk to my partner about this. Mm-hmm. you know, and, you know, I, I think some of that, that data and kind of using that data kind of creatively, to further the concept, and I say further rather than sort of, you know, justify because it's a process. I mean that, that technical, you know, data that you're talking about isn't separate from, it's in addition to, the work that you're doing. so you might start out with the sketch and the intuition because of who you are. and then you, you know, have another team member who's working on some analysis and then the two of you kind of meet and say, oh, well that's kind of interesting how that sort of plays itself out. How does that adjust our work? you know, how does that make the concept better? It's not that the first idea is the only idea, rarely is, I mean, the instinct, the instincts, you know, might, you know, when you kind of go back at those early sketches, the instincts might be there, but they needed to evolve too. You know, and that, that evolution of that idea really makes it great.