Coffee Sketch Podcast

109 - Lebbeus and RoTo Ark on Towers

February 10, 2023 Kurt Neiswender/Jamie Crawley Season 5 Episode 109
109 - Lebbeus and RoTo Ark on Towers
Coffee Sketch Podcast
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Coffee Sketch Podcast
109 - Lebbeus and RoTo Ark on Towers
Feb 10, 2023 Season 5 Episode 109
Kurt Neiswender/Jamie Crawley

Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!


Buy us a Coffee! Support the Show!


https://www.buymeacoffee.com/coffeesketch


Music on the Show


CNEIS - https://cneis.bandcamp.com/

c_0ldfashioned - https://www.instagram.com/c_0ldfashioned/ 

Compilation - https://triplicaterecords.bandcamp.com/track/cneis-more-or-less 


Our Links


Follow Jamie on Instagram  - https://www.instagram.com/falloutstudio/ 

Follow Kurt on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kurtneiswender/ 

Kurt’s Practice - https://www.instagram.com/urbancolabarchitecture/ 


Coffee Sketch on Twitter - https://twitter.com/coffeesketch 

Jamie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/falloutstudio 

Kurt on Twitter - https://twitter.com/kurtneiswender 


On the Web


Website - www.coffeesketchpodcast.com

Kurt’s Practice - www.urbancolab.design 

Contact Me - info@urbancolab.design 

NFT Artwork - https://hic.af/urbancolab 


Coffee Sketch Podcast is on YouTube for extended cuts and more visual content of Jamie’s beautiful sketches. Please consider subscribing!


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_lQkY3-OqmHaTl_jdOgtvw 


Kurt’s Practice Urban Colab Architecture, shares about the practice of architecture and is also on YouTube. Please Subscribe to: 


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuMXvvQXgrQIVE1uJ8QHxsw 

Support the Show.

Buy some Coffee! Support the Show!
https://ko-fi.com/coffeesketchpodcast/shop

Our Links

Follow Jamie on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/falloutstudio/

Follow Kurt on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kurtneiswender/

Kurt’s Practice - https://www.instagram.com/urbancolabarchitecture/

Coffee Sketch on Twitter - https://twitter.com/coffeesketch

Jamie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/falloutstudio

Kurt on Twitter - https://twitter.com/kurtneiswender

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Show Notes Transcript

Thank you for listening. We both hope that you enjoyed this episode of Coffee Sketch Podcast. Our Theme music is provided by my brother who goes by @c_0ldfashioned on Instagram and Twitter. Our podcast is hosted at coffeesketchpodcast.com find more show notes and information from this episode. And finally, if you liked this episode please rate us on iTunes and share us with your friends! Thank you!


Buy us a Coffee! Support the Show!


https://www.buymeacoffee.com/coffeesketch


Music on the Show


CNEIS - https://cneis.bandcamp.com/

c_0ldfashioned - https://www.instagram.com/c_0ldfashioned/ 

Compilation - https://triplicaterecords.bandcamp.com/track/cneis-more-or-less 


Our Links


Follow Jamie on Instagram  - https://www.instagram.com/falloutstudio/ 

Follow Kurt on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kurtneiswender/ 

Kurt’s Practice - https://www.instagram.com/urbancolabarchitecture/ 


Coffee Sketch on Twitter - https://twitter.com/coffeesketch 

Jamie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/falloutstudio 

Kurt on Twitter - https://twitter.com/kurtneiswender 


On the Web


Website - www.coffeesketchpodcast.com

Kurt’s Practice - www.urbancolab.design 

Contact Me - info@urbancolab.design 

NFT Artwork - https://hic.af/urbancolab 


Coffee Sketch Podcast is on YouTube for extended cuts and more visual content of Jamie’s beautiful sketches. Please consider subscribing!


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_lQkY3-OqmHaTl_jdOgtvw 


Kurt’s Practice Urban Colab Architecture, shares about the practice of architecture and is also on YouTube. Please Subscribe to: 


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuMXvvQXgrQIVE1uJ8QHxsw 

Support the Show.

Buy some Coffee! Support the Show!
https://ko-fi.com/coffeesketchpodcast/shop

Our Links

Follow Jamie on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/falloutstudio/

Follow Kurt on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kurtneiswender/

Kurt’s Practice - https://www.instagram.com/urbancolabarchitecture/

Coffee Sketch on Twitter - https://twitter.com/coffeesketch

Jamie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/falloutstudio

Kurt on Twitter - https://twitter.com/kurtneiswender

Kurt:

Yo, Jamie, how's it?

Jamie:

Good. How are you doing

Kurt:

I realize, one thing, two things that I had this little ticker at the bottom still on while running the whole intro, but I also was dancing like nobody's watching because that theme song has still is, has not gotten old, no five years, and I still, still love it. So maybe we. Do this switch. Switch shoutouts to this one here. One more. Shout out Charlie. Cause you know, he's my brother, so I'm biased. I can be very nice.

Jamie:

No, no, no. It is good. I mean, like, I'm, I'm enjoying it. Always have so, and I'm, and I'm very excited, you know, for him to have his, his EP out. So

Kurt:

yeah, I, I think I need to update this link and. the direct link. I said I was gonna do that. I didn't do that yet, so we'll come around to that. But

Jamie:

anyway, show notes as they say. Right, right. Show

Kurt:

notes says this thing in, in the show notes. Yes. So, yeah, so we're, we're live on YouTube and Twitch, you know, so just so people. People know, right. This is, this is my marketing strategy for the year. Well,

Jamie:

I mean, you know, it's, I I'm finding that, you say marketing strategy, it's like I'm, I'm finding, you know, very natural ways to, you know, hey, did I mention that? You know, I've been doing this podcast for a while, you know, with people, in conversations lately. So it's, it's been pretty great. was that a conference? In the last couple days, our state preservation conference actually met, a podcaster, wow. Who does, a podcast focused on Galveston's history. and he was like, oh, you podcast wow, architect. what is it? So showed it to him and then he is like, wow, sketches this, this is, this is interesting Like, would you, would you guys come to Galveston? So, shout out to Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I know, right? We, I didn't, I I was like, go to episode, you know? back, go back. On the way back, it's about like, what, two, two seasons ago? Oh, but yeah. No, it's more than that three. Yeah. Gosh. yeah, with, with the, the biggest IMAX ever, Kurt, on the big screen, because Jamie was curating a PechaKucha, I'm sorry, I'm still gonna call it that. No matter how many, yeah. No matter how many times they send me emails, you know, encourage me to use the right name. Texas Society of Architects, Che Statewide Curation. Two years actually, but it's okay. and my buddy gets on the big mic, on the big IMAX screen. So it was fun. No, lots of lots, lots of good, lots of good people, in that and, really enjoyed it. And Galveston was fun. So, Galveston Unscripted is the other podcast. and, you know, learned, you know, learned a few of his tips, tricks and thoughts on, on the medium. So it was fun. Yeah,

that's

Kurt:

cool. You know, you better document Galveston while it's still there. No. Yeah, no fence. It's a no. That coastal town. It's, it's an interesting place. When we were walking around there kind of walking, talking, grabbing a beer somewhere

Jamie:

with Sterling. Yeah.

Kurt:

in, that island. Island town. That's an island, right? Or

Jamie:

is it? No, it's just on the coast. It's just on the coast. Oh, okay. My my opinion. But it's got a little, it, it has barrier island sort of built up, you know, kind of to help, but yeah, the seawall seawall.

Kurt:

Right. Well, so how's, that's, thanks for, sharing that with your, with that conference meetup and we'll have to check. unscripted, Galveston unscripted. But what is unscripted in your coffee cup today?

Jamie:

my friend, I have still the grackle. but it's, this is the last one. So special. Yeah. Special for

us.

Kurt:

Well, I, do a little pop culture.

Jamie:

what about yourself? What about yourself?

Kurt:

I know that's my segue to pop culture. so, so, Danielle has acquired, she thought she might give it a try. This coffee that also Ha. So it's like an instant coffee, but it also has some mushrooms in it. Like, I don't, I don't know. You know, it's supposed to be good for you, you know. Fun guy, Okay. But have you watch. the last of us

No.

Jamie:

A TV show. No, but, but like, I almost did the, I almost did it this this weekend. I was really tempted because it, I, I mean it was sort of, I'd been, it had been recommended to me when it was coming out and they were like, get on this, watch this. I was like, yeah, that sounds pretty interesting. And and then they said, you know, there's even like these sort of pseudo references to like Austin. In like the back, in the backdrop and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, that sounds interesting. And, and then they said, you know, and then when episode three came out, apparently episode three was like this, like beautiful thing, you know, like, and so I, I'm hearing lots about it. I, I assume by your reference, you guys have been watching. Yeah,

Kurt:

we've been watching and, you know, so the mushroom cortis is a kind of mushroom and a, a mycelium, a fungi, you know, I don't know what you know about mushrooms, but you know, they, they have a very large network of connectivity underground. I mean, there's a lot of fascinating spatial concepts that mushrooms, we could learn from mushrooms on,

Jamie:

but they're also really good on a pepperoni pizza. So

Kurt:

Yes. And, also in this TV show, the Last of Us, but if, if you, since you haven't watched it, I'm not gonna spoil it, but for those of our listeners that do watch it they, they will, you know, they might think twice about drinking things with mushrooms in them. That's all I'm gonna say. But the, Yeah, no, that episode three, I mean, there's, so this is like, I mean, I don't wanna get into it too much, but it's based off, it's a video game, right? It's like that's, that's, yeah, that's what I heard turned into a TV show, which, you know, always can have its problems or issues, I guess, you know, with translation and things like that. But yeah, I, I, after watching episode three, Daniel, and. eaten breakfast the next day and I was just thinking like that could be one of the best one episode things I've ever seen of any show ever. It was so well done. The story they put, like they, it is like, you know, an hour long episode, but they were able to capture so much storyline, backstory, history. and in this relationship, and I'm, I'm not gonna give it away, to you because I don't want to sort

Jamie:

of spread No, no, no. I, I mean, it's, it's, it, it is gonna be a, it is gonna be a watch, so I appreciate that. but I mean, isn't, I mean, it's, it's also sort of has a dystopian architecture kind of Oh yeah. You know, Oh yeah. Okay. I mean, well, it, and, and I say that because, and I know only because, you know, on the Twitters, there's quite a few set designers and. you know, kind of film people, that, that I've, you know, started to follow or I've been, not started, I've been following for quite a while. and so I think that that, that bleeding between art, architecture, film form following fiction, has always been ever-present in kind of my interest areas. So, I, I've seen some of the kind of background. Production design, for, for the series and, and then them kind of calling between the series and the video game and things like that. And so it's, it's been really interesting to just look at that. Definitely speak my interest. it is going to be the next thing for sure.

Kurt:

Yeah. Good. Yeah. Good. It's so I can catch up. It's a good, yeah, and we'll then, we'll, we'll just come back to it, you know, once you've gotten into it, because now, so it's one of those where it's not like they dump all the episodes online, so, right. It's still, we're still only four episodes in, and so, and so, anyway, there's the, well, she's gotta collect the dog. Hello. Hello, B So, anyway, what, what should we do next? Should we well,

Jamie:

I was gonna say, yeah, you can bring in the sketch cuz I think there was a bit of a transition to that sort of art film architecture thing.

Kurt:

Yeah, so we have a sketch and some reference material, but I won't get into the, we'll start with the sketch or I guess sketches. We have two that happen on two different days on facing Page. and, I'm kind of mask out. Danielle that part out. So yeah, we'll try and do some, do some, some editing magic. Right? But anyway, so Jamie, why don't you start and tell us a little bit about what we have here and then I'll jump back. Yeah,

Jamie:

no. I think the, so, you know, we were sort of talking a little bit about film and art and architecture and sort of the, the parallels to some of our interests and then some of the sketches of late folks that we follow, things that we're watching on tv. all that good stuff are streaming and, you know, I think the, the sketch on the, on the, the left in the book done, done the day. done this week, but done the day before, the one on the right, and it really kind of garnered a, a, a few kind of comments from folks, when I tagged it as LEAs LEAs Woods. and it was one where I had read an article, you know, that day that there was a new exhibit of some of his sketches and drawings. I believe in la. That was opening soon or, or had just opened. And a lot of it related to this, you know, connection of architecture and his relationship to film, and his kind of, You know, as an influencer of it, and sometimes production designer and sometimes, you know, kind of Rebel maverick architect so it was, and there was some drawings in there I'd never seen before. and so one of them was this kind of cathedral-like space. and so I just kind of pulled, you know, left it up on the screen and. Sort of tried to riff on it a little bit. So some of it's him and some of it's me and, but you know, sometimes when I'm reading things like that and kind of wanna make those kind of connections, to my own memory, that's where some of these sketches reside.

Kurt:

Well, that's cool. I love, I love when we talk about ES wood stuff because, you know, strong reference. Actually it's very interesting, the, the, the subtle segues that we've had from, from pop culture, I, I, I, I call it pop culture, but I guess it's just current events, tv. What's out there? the dystopian conditions that we have in like the last of us and in a lot of Jamie's sketches. So, you know, maybe Jamie needs to, ping some of these. Hollywood people types and say, Hey, do you need help? I've got a lot of, I've got a lot of, I

Jamie:

got a lot of stuff trapped up in here, let's, let's get it all like there is a gas mask over my shoulder. There it is.

Kurt:

Ah, yes,

Jamie:

yes. you know, the, the, the logo for Fallout Studio, when it was, you know, more than just a passion project. was a gas mask. and so kind of a, a silhouette coming out of a, a photography project in college. right.

Kurt:

Yeah, we touch base often, probably more than once on that thing, but it's good to bring it back every now and then. Cuz

Jamie:

it, it doesn't go, it, it, it sort of just lives right there. It's like a over the shoulder. Yeah.

Kurt:

But the, so the, you know, the levy stuff, you know, I don't, I can't remember if I've ever seen anything of his in real life in an exhibit, but, you know, it's one of those things that we. In, in school did things like go to the library architecture library and pour over the various monographs and books and que And I know we talk about this probably a lot, but just to, just to say it again, that, you know, the information is out there if you know where to find it.

Jamie:

Well, and, and you say that like, in the real life I've never seen any of, like, he's done, you know, he's had drawings. I think I've seen. I shouldn't say, I don't think I have. I've seen one of his drawings exhibited, in New York. and actually when we were at, like the convention in New York, it kind of reminded me of a lot of those things. But I saw a drawing of his exhibited in New York. But, my first trip to New York. I actually got to listen to LEAs give a lecture in person. and, and at that point, exactly what you were describing. I had been going to the library and pouring over all these books and seeing these amazing drawings and was like, who is this person? and when I found out that he was a professor in new. And a practicing architect in New York and had this sort of strange relationship to research and manifestos and whatnot. the minute I heard that there was this opportunity to go to a lecture on my first trip to Manhattan in my entire life, yeah, that was not gonna be missed. so it. You know, those things, have, you know, indelible marks, on probably, you know, my creativity and psyche and whatever. Where was it hosted At? Cooper Union. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, the American Institute of Architects students, a i a. architecture students, the, their national forum that year was in Washington DC but creatively they decided that they would have a preform in New York City. So if you were kind of adventurous enough, you flew into dc, took a train to New York and like had. And they, and they, they build it as like, you're only in New York for, you know, this amount of time, we're gonna keep you up as, as long as we can and you're only gonna sleep like one night. and you're at the center of the universe. And so it was like, I mean, we were, we watched Taxi Driver at midnight, a midnight show, a taxi driver, you know, I mean, it was like they were keeping us up like as much as they could to cramon as much about New York at that time. it was insane, but. LEAs was one of the speakers, which just added to the whole level of like, this is not a real place.

Kurt:

Yeah, I can imagine. That's gotta be a kind of a, a, a Hunter s tops, Townsend style Yes. Event. absolutely, yes. The yeah, New York. Well, you know, growing, growing up on the East coast, we, it's called the city. We call it, we call it the city when we, I grew up in Connecticut, but not the fancy schmancy part of Connecticut. You know, but, you know, well, I

Jamie:

mean, I mean, and my, my folks would go down to New York, I mean from, from Montreal. I mean, it was like, you know, it was a drive, I mean, clearly a jaunt, but like they'd go to the city and, you know, now I'm a little older, so I hear a few more stories about what that was sort of like, and it was, you know, they loved live music. I mean, that was, that was sort of the thing was, you know, those kinds of ventures, I think, you know, involved a lot of that as well. So, but. It's, yeah, the city, it's the center of the universe as I'd like to affectionately refer to it.

Kurt:

Yeah. Yeah. And, and so like, you know, with Leus Draw or Levy's style of drawings in his exploration, always a lot of verticality. High rise, the density of New York and things like that. And so there's that sort of sense of that. The Z axis, the, the vertical, the height of this thing, which is kind of fun that you paired it with this other sketch on the other side of the page, which is oddly enough, it's one of those moments where you and I have known each other. Lo I was just thinking about this the other day cuz it goes back almost 10 years. when we first met at our AIA committee meeting for the Young Architects Forum, I think it was, well, I, I think it was, was it 2014 or 13?

Jamie:

14.

Kurt:

14, yeah. So we're almost, so we're nine years, you know,

Jamie:

but who's, yeah. I mean, it's, it's also national, you know, national responsibilities that we, you know, we're fortunate of, have. Like almost a decade ago. so yeah, yeah,

Kurt:

yeah. So, so after 10 years and then No stopping us now. No. Stopping us now. And five year, five years into this podcast. But you posted this, this sketch on the right, on Instagram, and I immediately was thinking of a building. I was like, that reminds me of this Michael Tundi building. that I, I remember when I was in LA and as a student and he was lecturing at either Cy or usc, wherever I saw him in town. Cuz he, he, you know, had his office in la which he still does. but he, I think was, had just recently finished this building in the early two thousands, somewhere around there, you know, late nineties, two thousands. And it's, so, it's a Michael Tundi. It's a, it's a house, I believe, but it's like out in the, the country. I forget. It's like in big Sky Country, I think like Montana or somewhere out there. and I'll, I'll cheat over to the right. But anyway, so before I get to the, the photographs, I, I, I saw your sketch and immediately made me think of that building. And so as we were preparing for today, I was like, oh yeah, this sketch here and. I grabbed the screenshot of the Tundi house and and sure enough it was what you your inspiration. So what I'm trying to say is after all this time that you and I are starting to, just like mushrooms are, have a hive mind underground, I guess our. Brain brains are, interconnected.

Jamie:

Well, I I think it's, it's sort of also a gen Oh, sweetie. it's, you know, it's a, it's sort of a generational thing too. I mean, there's generational influences, but it's also, I think it's even beyond generational and I think it's more about, it's, there's process influences. I think that there's things about, you know, an approach to architecture. you know, it, it's, we haven't talked a whole lot about. The line in, that's going on in Oh, in Saudi Arabia. which I mean, we, we can, I think we probably should at some point. cause it's an interesting and strange, conflagration. Conflagration. Oh, right,

Kurt:

right, right. But especially with this

Jamie:

architecture. Right. But, but I think that, you know, it's. a a as much as you know, that's being talked about quite a bit right now and starting to get, I think that there's, there's definitely some influence in, in the work that, that you and I are interested in process-wise. and, and these sketches are sort of, Connection to it for me at times. you know, the, my network that you're referring to, I, I think is, yeah, it's, you know, that's the, oops. there are things that sort of pique your interest or you stumble across and you realize, oh, wow. You know, and then you start talking to somebody and they're like, oh yeah, I was kind of reading or thinking. and there's a sort of kismet moment, where things just sort of connect on a different level. And I think it's just, it's, it's the circles that you find yourself in. It's, you know, finding your tribe too. yeah, yeah,

Kurt:

yeah. I'm with that, the tribe, you know, but,

Jamie:

you know, but, but I think that when I, when I say generational, I don't mean like, you know, gen X are here, talking about it, but it's, that. I really am interested in, you know, people who draw and process and share those kinds of thoughts on paper or digitally, you know, and kind of work through those schemes and you can sort of see in that image. And that's what I tried to, to, to, to pick up here is, you know, I know. Roto, from studying him and then also teaching with him, when I was at Prairie View and, you know, and then continuing to, to, to connect with him every once in a while. but, you know, I know these projects, you know, from, from a distance, but at the same time there's a familiarity because you've had at least a little bit of connection with them. You know, towers are hard. and then it's sort of on my mind lately of these sort of, you know, vertical pieces, you know, of architecture and, you know, his project sort of was one that kind of came to my mind. Similar to yours, your thought. Kind of, you know, and sort of sketching it out and then starting to sketch it out, and then actually going and seeking some of the image free of it, and then riffing off of it, in a, in sort of a different way, purposefully. So, yeah. it's, I, I'm, I'm glad that it, it sparked that immediate connection for you because, you know, that's, you know, it's, I. I mean, it's, it's not that, it's not that that's a bad thing, I think, I think it's a bad thing if people hide it. you know, or don't, or don't acknowledge what's come before, or where some of those ideas maybe come from. but I mean, what was in it like TS Elliot, you know, it's, immature poets imitate, mature poets steal. So

Kurt:

right? I I've also heard the one, good artist. Oh shoot. Now I can't remember. Oh yeah, yeah. Good artist. Copy. Great artist, steel similarly, right. And steal from each other. But yeah. You know, towers like you said, are, are. especially if they're honestly, well, you know, we're, we're not talking about skyscrapers here. You know, this Michael Tundi design is a, is like a single family house. but it's a, a very vertical structure. and it's sort of confined to like, you know, say one or two functions per floor plate. Right. You know, so it's like living room. with kitchen and bath maybe, and then bedrooms and, and it, so this becomes this, a layer of plates, you know, floor plates or however you wanna describe it. But, and then so culminating with like a, a viewing deck on the roof, which I think to me is like kind of always the interesting aspect of you start moving up, right? Then you're changing your perspective at every level and then having this sort of rooftop. vantage point as the, as the, as the top of the, the, the, the, the sort of, it's like, why, why do people climb mountains? Right. I don't know if that sounds too much like, trying to connect these things, but,

Jamie:

but it's, it's, you know, Glenn Murcutt, lectured, at a and m when I was in school and one of the things, that he said, was this sort of concept of living lightly on the land, you know, in kind of reference to his work. Mm-hmm. and then, you know, he had a big influence on Brian McKay Lyons out Nova Scotia. and it's like McKay Lyons Sweet Apple, I think. Mm-hmm. Is, is the firm now. And, I think. In sort of the spirit of those two architects who, you know, are sort of theorists and teachers and really principled in, in sort of their design approach and sort of the architecture that they're sort of seeking. it's very akin to ROT as much as rotund is sort of on his own. With it. But I think that in a, in a work like this, you could probably put, a Brian McKay Lyons, building in Nova Scotia up, you know, next to this one by Rotunda, and have a really, really interesting dialogue about both, not about the architects, but about the things that they're seeking to solve. and it's sort of that living lightly on the land, creating a small floor plate, but at the same time having goals about the project where you're kind of getting up so that you can sort of have these vista's advantage points. You know, you're kind of creating this architectural folly at the same time. So it's almost like a shmi folley. not red, and you know, so

Kurt:

there's a little red column.

Jamie:

Right, right, right. you know, but I, I think that all those things sort of, you know, are, you know, coalescing in, in a, in sort of my own little sketch here where I'm, like I said, riffing off this idea of what Rotunda's doing. but at the same time, sort of intrinsically thinking, you know, how does this sort of sit in a landscape and, and could this be a part of some other things? So what you're seeing off to the left of the tower is actually sort of an exploration of plan. And so like, what if you had a site that you know, starts at one one spot and you know, amidst that, you know, can you have a series of rooms that are exterior? that are joined in a place that ends up with a tower at the end. And, and that was sort of, the idea that what I was exploring, you know, of course it's only one sketch. I'm doing it relatively quickly. so, you know, and then you're saying like, leus the day before, so like there's this sort of other thing kind of going on too.

Kurt:

So you're saying like this, I'm gonna use my highlighter, but this here is a, a sort of progressive floor plan. Yes. So it's like one, one large composition of pavilions or, or moments along this pathway. Yes. With different room configurations, with also has this interesting site you. site element of the, you know, just a couple of lines that sort of reflect how, engages the landscape and then, and then ends in this tower, which, you know, one of these days we'll have to go back to, like talking about Nasca lines and, and, and all that stuff, which I don't know if we've ever talked about. In much detail and it's one of those things that, you know, it's,

Jamie:

it's gonna be our X-Files episode,

Kurt:

It should be. Yeah. You know, but af after 20 years of working in this field, I'm just now starting to understand what I learned from Tom Maine 20 years ago in lectures. About his infatuation with the NAS lines, and I'm not gonna get into the na, but in general, just like the, I guess the maturity it takes to, to digest on this stuff for so long. And then, I, you know, I recently, I was on Google, you know, we have technology to watch Google Maps and you can go to Peru and look at all the NAS lines and it's like still mind blowing with like, what, what these things mean. And then I, I recently had watched the documentary. I think that sort of touched on it. Anyway, what, I'm gonna get too far off topic with that. The idea of like, that's kinda what I see here too though. It's that, you know, you have. it's a procession, right. Of spaces. Right. And then you, you've arrived at something that then is the, the, the vertical, you know, node or

Jamie:

stake in the ground. Yeah. Well, and I, and I like, you know, that you sort of talk about, sort of recognizes things that you remember early in your career and, and how, you know, maybe you had a different view. for them then than you do now. And that's natural, right? I mean, but that doesn't mean that you were a, a bad designer then, and a, a good designer now, it just means that's you're, you know, you're on your own evolutionary path. and, and I think that that's what I find with myself is that, I mean there's certainly moments where you're sort of self-critical about all this stuff. and. it's, you know, I, I've, I've joked at at times, you know, outwardly and then also inwardly talking about it. But, you know, sort of saying, I feel like I, you know, there's, there's a couple spots along that timeline where you really feel like you've, you've matured as, as a designer and not matured like in age, but in like the things that you've been trying to absorb suddenly start to make more sense. And, and that can happen, you know, you know, you know, year one. but it's when you're in year 10 or 15 or 20 where you can go back to that stuff that was in year one and go, you know, some of that stuff still is applicable here. and, and, and some of those influences that might've seemed, You know, where I was rebelling or this or that, or, you know, some kind of rabbit hole that you're going down. That's, you know, why, like, I mean, why, why do you study history then? Like, you know, why, why, why is in the first year of your architecture curriculum or really any curriculum, you know, it's, it's your. You're, you're learning from it, you're learning from those influences, and hopefully you're also, you know, now more so, realizing that there's lots of histories that we don't know about, that we should have known about. that we should have studied. You and I have talked about this plenty of times, And so as those things start to kind of filter in, it's not that those supplant the things that were there before, it's that the things that were there before get now influenced by this other layer of stuff. And, and that's to me the kind of, the interesting thing, I mean, I'll just say this, is that, I had a really great conversation with my dad. a week ago because he's like, Hey. He just like, he was, you know, calling and he's like, Hey, what are you doing? How's it going middle of the week? I said, oh, well, I'm about to watch a show. I'm really excited about it. I was like, so I can't talk for, for too long. He's like, oh, what are you gonna watch? And I was like, oh, well, you know, PBS has this new documentary coming out and Chuck D is. The executive producer of it and sort of has put this whole thing, you know, kind of curated this whole thing about the first 50 years of hiphop. And he is like, oh, okay. Well, well I'll let you get to your show and then like the next day I'm getting these text messages from, Like about the show because he, he watched it, like he watched the whole thing and he's like now watching, like cuz the second one was this week. and it's stuff that musically is somewhat familiar to him. and I mean, again, like I said, you know, he has a real kind of passion for music. but you know, dad's in his eighties Right. You know, so it's. I think that that kind of, you can still learn new stuff, you know, and you can let it influence you. so, you know, th this stuff for, for us is very familiar. And even though it's, you know, these, this building that you've got on the screen is like almost 20 years old, right? Mm-hmm. But for somebody who's seeing it for the first time, it's brand new. You know, at least as a concept. And then when you start to thread that concept to other things, that's where it starts to get exciting. Because, you know, some of those things, if it's done and executed really well, can really have a, a, a much more lasting influence. and then it's like, okay, well then what's next? You know? And I think that that's the thing that, I, I kind of always appreciate about history is wanna learn stuff and then talk about what's. So yeah. Thanks All set. Went. I went down like a whole little,

Kurt:

no, that's great. I think I appreciate the fact that it's, it is about always willing to be, to learn something and, and then have ability to take away. And so I hope that between you and me doing. For five years now that we are getting that point across and, and that some, you know, our listeners, feel the same way and, and, and gain something out of this. So, you know, thanks for, thanks for these fun sketches and, and the conversation. We'll talk to you on the next one.

Jamie:

Thanks, Kurt.