105 - Fantasy Drawing in the Real World!

Kurt Neiswender: 0:00

Hey Jamie. How's, how's it going? Good morning. How are you? It's still morning. Well, well, it's morning almost in coffee sketch land. Yeah, coffee sketch land. Exactly. Do you, do you picture that the people that listen to our, our episodes, listen in the morning? Did I already ask you this once? Maybe?

Jamie Crawley: 0:20

No, but that's a good, that's a good, I, I could, I could, I could go there. Yeah. I mean it's, maybe it's, it feels like a, a morning or like a, or like a late night driving, kind of like you're on the road. Speaking of

Kurt Neiswender: 0:37

road trip, Soundtracks we have to, I've been meaning to remind us to shout out an old friend Shannon Christensen, who has been so nice to post or tag us the Coffee Sketch podcast as one of her go-to road trip podcasts. Cause you knew she's not sleeping while she's driving. Yeah.

Jamie Crawley: 1:01

Well, right. And that then maybe that's, maybe that's the, the image. And also cuz I just did a big road trip, so Yeah. But yeah, I can, I can, I can see that. I think she was list, she had a couple, she listed a couple great ones. So Yeah. we were just fortunate to be part of the mix.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:15

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Among good company. It's, it's been fun. As, as I say all the time, it's so much fun to do this with you. Jamie. So, and there's a

Jamie Crawley: 1:26

new one, and there's a new one we're listening to. I think they only have one episode out now. But our friends of the podcast who have been on the podcast they both co-hosts together they have they have now officially dropped in to the podcasting realm themselves with their

Kurt Neiswender: 1:42

own. Yeah. Sandra and, and Karen, right? You, yeah. You're talking about our our friends from Noar, part Noar Design, part T Design,

Jamie Crawley: 1:52

and Yeah. And they they interviewed Kimberly.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:55

So the, oh, really? I actually I, it's in the queue. I have to yet listen to it, so it's on the list, but yeah, no, I'm excited. I, I sent a, I saw a message that Sandra A. Little posted, I think it was on LinkedIn and about the new podcast. And I said, I can't wait to listen. And she, she replied, did you see the reply? She said, inspired by the Coffee Sketch podcast, so we've got a little shout out back. We'll take it. It's so much fun. It's a community after all. I'm excited to cross paths again with them and see how, how it's going. It's been, it's really cool. Cat's visiting

Jamie Crawley: 2:41

Zuko has decided that he's gonna, he's gonna visit, so

Kurt Neiswender: 2:44

that's okay. We, we are All about inclusion with our furry friends too. Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, we've it's just fun. It's fun from time to time to get a little, little shout out from a friend, a friend and colleague in the biz. Right. And so just wanna keep it going. So, so I know we've been, and, and I'll, I'll, I'll carry. Blame on this one for some of the, the gaps in time, but I, I finally, finally, finally finished moving, and so I mean, all my stuff is here. Is, is, it means it's not in the old house and not in both houses, but it's all here now as it unpacked. No, but it's here, so So there's baby steps toward getting ourselves back on track. So there's some new camera angles that people will start to see and maybe some new background imagery and, if continually working on my color scheme and lighting and whatnot here. But anyway, so we're back together again. Jamie's. Been waiting, waiting patiently for me to, to get going on, on the push record.

Jamie Crawley: 4:03

Yeah, I just, I just sit here. And just like in, right? Yeah. Zoom in, zoom land and just, it's like the perpetual waiting room

Kurt Neiswender: 4:14

Well,

Jamie Crawley: 4:14

all joking aside, that's not totally true,

Kurt Neiswender: 4:17

right? Yes, yes. There's a real ra waiting room, not just a virtual waiting room. Right? Yeah.

Jamie Crawley: 4:22

Kurt, Kurt does let me leave my house. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 4:26

so the well, I am drinking. I'll just jump right into what I'm drinking. Well, actually, what I'm, I have two things. I'm drinking coffee and I have other coffee to show and tell.

Jamie Crawley: 4:37

Always show and tell. That's good.

Kurt Neiswender: 4:39

That's right. Because, well, I'd have to sh. Well, no, people can see our cameras. Right? So when they get onto YouTube, Kurt

Jamie Crawley: 4:47

has just remembered. He's like, oh my gosh. Yeah, we're, we're actually recording. Like, this is like not just a chit, we're

Kurt Neiswender: 4:53

not just chatting buddy. It's only been, a few weeks. Right. So any who Danielle and I went to lunch at the local Flint Institute of Arts. And they had so I got some coffee. So I don't really know what they brew. Probably Starbucks something, but it's a, so it's an unknown coffee. But from a good location, the Flint is two parts. Fair enough. It's fair enough. It's a fun place to, to, to eat a little, eat a little food, check out the art. Alter

Jamie Crawley: 5:27

yourself. You are allowed to ask like what kind of coffee they have too. You. Especially since, we have a podcast where we do talk about the coffee, but,

Kurt Neiswender: 5:40

well, next time I guess I'll, I'll find out next time. So, and then lastly, my, my show and tell. I have been making it home. This stuff partly picked it up cuz it's Guatemalan. I don't know, it's a little dark or a little bright. And then also I had a really nice. Colorful packaging, which was unfortunately not recyclable, but it looked, it looked, sort of attracted, attracted my eye and so I couldn't not buy it. But anyway, so the Guatemala coffee pay homage to my, my Roots. Excellent. And that, so it's, it's a, it's a nice little I dunno, it's kind of fun that, that there. To see the word Guatemala. Right. See some, some of my heritage in the name pop up. And when you've been

Jamie Crawley: 6:33

talking about connotations, you've been talking about like wanting to buy some for, for a while. So it's glad that you found,

Kurt Neiswender: 6:39

I, I, you're right. Thank you for that. So, any who? It says here, bright Meyer Lemon and Coco Nib. Hmm. Are the, are the notes on

Jamie Crawley: 6:50

there, the, the ones that have lemon in it? I have to say that I've, as much as I love lemon, like for some reason those, and I, so I'm of course attracted to, to buying or trying, those kinds of blends, but they generally like disappoint. I don't know. I'm not saying that the one you have, maybe it's, maybe that one breaks the, breaks the trend, but,

Kurt Neiswender: 7:18

well, I'll, next time I take a, make a cup, I'll have to, I don't, I don't really notice it too. Like citrusy or asic. Right. Is that the Right, right. The acidic word Well, so I'll let but what about you? I noticed you're drinking out of the gift cup mug. From our friend.

Jamie Crawley: 7:43

Yeah. So it's, it's that, fall season. So the seasonal maple pecan that I can't resist from Starbucks is, in circulation. So it's not the only one. Have a have some a as well. But this is the maple pecan. Right on.

Kurt Neiswender: 7:59

I remember we talked about this last year. Yes.

Jamie Crawley: 8:04

Yeah. And discovered it last year and then have now suddenly when it like shows up, I'm like, mm. Yep.

Kurt Neiswender: 8:11

Jamie's no longer drinking pumpkin spice things.

Jamie Crawley: 8:15

Yeah. No,

Kurt Neiswender: 8:19

I had, had to do it. Had to ding Yeah. Had to, had to throw a little challenge in there. So let us share. Yep. There we go. We got it in there.

Jamie Crawley: 8:36

Speaking of pumpkins,

Kurt Neiswender: 8:38

pumpkins, Batman. Oh yeah. I, I, that's my hand fisted segue, right? Just let's dive right into the sketch. As you can tell I'm pretty rusty. Sorry Jamie, I apologize. That's i'll get back into our fighting, our fighting form. The actually there is a pumpkin in here, so, but you got me. But you didn't. Exactly. So, so we're in the tail, tail end of October, meaning that it's the beginning of November. And

Jamie Crawley: 9:16

so every, every, you're listening. By the time you're listening

Kurt Neiswender: 9:19

to this, it's November, possibly could be December. So just kidding.

Jamie Crawley: 9:25

If Kurt has to unpack one more box,

Kurt Neiswender: 9:29

So, Anyway, anyway, that's a good one. So the the thing we like to try and dabble into is the Arc Ink Tober hashtag kind of an annual tradition that I'm not really, do you actually know who started it? Is it our, our friend? I

Jamie Crawley: 9:49

I, I'd recall. I don't,

Kurt Neiswender: 9:50

yeah, I don't know. On Twitter or, yeah, I don't,

Jamie Crawley: 9:53

I don't know if, if, if, if he started it Ink Tober, is, has been around for a really long time and, they have their prompts too. And apparently there was some, some spicy comments about, who, who started Ink Tober. I really don't care. Yeah. But I like the idea of it. And so I, I had participated in that for. Number of years on and off. And then sort of started to get kind of more aware of, our friends who were trying to focus it a little bit more architecturally and sketching and, in the month of October. And I thought, yeah, let's, let's do

Kurt Neiswender: 10:30

this. Yeah. So the, there's three that will try, well, we're not gonna dig in deep to all three, but there's three. That, that kind of get it going. And they all have the theme took off the month. Yeah. Yeah. And they all have a theme of our friend, our friend of the channel, Batman.

Jamie Crawley: 10:53

So I, I'll just say, so for, for the listeners who have no idea what the heck we're talking about sometimes it's, it is good to just, do a little short explainer. So if you can imagine. Just like we talk about on the podcast, Jamie tries to draw every day. So drawing a day, check ink, sketches check month of October Inc. Tober or ato, somebody creates a list of prompts. So some thematic suggestions. Typically it's one word for each day of the month. And so ideally you. Not drawing ahead or not drawing behind. I've definitely drawn behind in the past and this year the same. But these are ones usually you start off the months strong and then you sort of, something happens, or whatever. But. Yeah. So these are the, the initial ones for this month and, and they as we all sort of joke sometimes I'll impose sort of my own thematic rules on things. And these just sort of struck me, felt very halloweenish, this month for whatever, even at the very beginning I don't know if it was, being out in the stores and seeing Halloween stuff up way, way too early, spirit Halloween, swallowed. Shopping mall. I don't know, the usual things that, that happen in the month of October. But yeah, this is, these are the first three prompts. And so Kurt's got them sort of queued up here, and I think we'll kind of breeze through them, but at the same time, they, they sort of struck you as, as, as fun ones to talk about today. So I'm, I'm glad we.

Kurt Neiswender: 12:24

Yeah, and, and actually the prompts. So in the upper right here where you have the day one arch in October. Thanks for the explanation too. I, I just ran right into that one, so it's nice to take a minute to explain why and what we are trying to work on here. So the. The hashtag is straw. So that was the day, the word of the day for day one, October 1st. So straw. So it, it's kind of like you said, up to interpretation on how the artist wants to use the prompt in the sketch and in fun. I think it's just to encourage people to make a drawing and take, take a minute to exercise that part of the brain. So you have some, some sort of straws, but you also have the straw man, or scarecrow, which is in a great little fist fight scene with Batman. There's a pumpkin behind Batman there, excuse me. And and a little bit of cityscape, which actually the, this, this part of the building here is kind of neat cuz it's a little bit. Abstract sort of. Well,

Jamie Crawley: 13:39

I I was hoping you were gonna ask about that Or see it,

Kurt Neiswender: 13:42

I mean, it also looks like a, a french fries, but,

Jamie Crawley: 13:45

Yeah, it does sort of look like, some adult swim cartoon. But it, no it, it's not, it's not, french fry man. It's it's actually sort of a nod to John Hay. And some of the FOLs in architecture that, that he created one of the New York five and there was an exhibit of his work in Houston several years ago, probably, gosh, maybe, 10 years ago now at the Manila and by Renzo piano. And, I, I knew of Hay's work. I'd only seen it in books. Never seen any of his work in person, but the exhibit was his sketches and drawings and models. And so it was really, really, and just only, only it was a solo show. So it was really fascinating to sort of see that process. And what's always sort of struck me is that he was a little bit of the poet of, of that group of five. And so there was a lyricism, of his work and sort of a fantasy and folly that had these, had these forms that, were architectural. But sort of interpretive in a sense. And I, and so when I saw the straw thing, it, yeah, I will say, honestly, I thought of that exhibit and some of his works. This is just sort of in, a memory glimpse of that. But this one is all outta my head. And yeah, really

Kurt Neiswender: 15:07

kind of enjoyed it. Yeah. Cool. I, I, I can see some of the Hedrick Hedrick, he. Styling in that. And did he design that, that building that had like the little straw grass roof? That's, that's the one. Yeah. Which is what this has a lot of, a lot closer resemblance in there. And the sort of, the way he sliced the window openings and things like that kind of, kind of show up in your sketch. So it's really cool. I, I mean, the more I look at it though, it's really. And actually all three of these, which we'll, I'll show the other two in a second. Actually have a ton of detail for being, a, a, a classic Jamie quick sketch. There's a lot of detail. And then even some other ones that we, we may talk about in the future. Lots of sort of Small, I small scale line work, I guess is what, how to describe it. It mixed in with the actual, like the, the main, main topic or target of the com composition, which is the sort of, in this case, the Batman Scarecrow sort of foreground. But in, in behind, in even the detail in their armor and costumes and things like that.

Jamie Crawley: 16:22

Well, yeah. And, and with that line work, what was interesting was, and this one sort of started it off and the other one sort of, kind of picked up on it a bit. And you'll see it in, in the next two sketches the, like right there in sort of the cape. And then in this second one as well, the line work is all sort of. And I, what I, you part of that was because it was straw as the prompt. So it was how, how are you sort of trying to generate with one, one pen weight line work that sort of resembles straw. And then, and I wanted to kind of get the reflection in sort of a swampy water. I imagined it sort of in a park. So that those lines are very, very likely Very delicate inverted at the edge of the water. So there were a reflection. And then as you kind of go back into the, the image and sort of that middle ground using just vertical lines to kind of create layers of space. And then into the Cape, same thing. It's all a single line direction. They're all parallel to one another, but the intensity of them is much tighter to kind of create that shadowed. normally in those cases, sometimes I'll scribble in over the top of that line work to kind of create that extra texture of that, the depth of that shadow. And I didn't do that here. And I think part of it was just sort of forcing myself to stay with kind of a what was working with those straw lines, to begin with.

Kurt Neiswender: 17:49

Yeah, I, I appreciate that sort of. Explanation of the technique for, for our listeners. Yeah, it's, it, it's, it's cool. It's kind of like a, how many ways can you kind of represent a straw or straw like form, right? The form really is, is the driver. So it's, it's, it is nice and I think, the more I look at, This one in all three drawings, which I haven't even, I sort of glimpsed the second one. And then all here. Let me jump to the third one real quick. Which, the second, well actually we'll come back. I think we should come back to the second one to, to as a concept. But the day three prompt is sticks, right? And so sticks and straw can. The same thing or different things or, or depending on who's really sort of making the interpretation.

Jamie Crawley: 18:42

I mean, and, and the other one that should have gone with this is like bricks. So we should have had sticks, bricks and straw Cause then it could have been like, yes, well, or just like the three little pigs. I mean, it could have been like oh, just go nursery rhyme, me and my fables next

Kurt Neiswender: 18:59

year. Next year. Yeah, exactly. We, we can plant that seed now.

Jamie Crawley: 19:04

Well, cuz what's coming up. It, it is that time of year where it is creek show time. So Creek show is is just around the corner. So you might be seeing some some fables in sketch. At least sort of nods to that coming up soon.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:21

Sure, sure. So this one is really, it's just really cool cuz it has like this, this stylized bat logo in among like these, these vertical but per spectacularly sort of one point perspective or worm's eye, depending on how you're looking at it. Sort of, a one point. So everything is converging. It's a super, it's just really just really fun. I like to sketch a lot. It, it, it

Jamie Crawley: 19:49

was a fun one to, it was so three dimensional. Well, thank you. I mean, it was a fun one to draw cuz it's just, I mean that was, and it was intended to be sort of fun and, and hopefully somebody kind of glancing at it quickly kind of got that, that. That worms eye view and, and it's great that you even said the one point perspective. I was teaching a class at our Texas Society of Architects Convention a three hour workshop. Super fun great way to do that. Great way to start off a convention is to go on a walking tour and do sketches with, with people who are, passionate about it. And excited. All different skill levels. But when you said that about sort of the one point it sort of struck me, it was there was one building we, we talked about and my walking tour is and the way I kind of approached those workshops, it's a little bit different than. Traditional urban Sketchers who have longer prompts and things of that sort or sort of instructional pieces or things like that. Ours is a lot more walkie talk, walk and talk, mm-hmm. and really kind of exploring like you would if you were on a trip. That's really kind of the intent behind it. But, and so that sometimes you don't always get the best vantage. you love, you love the building, you love the location, but you don't necessarily, oh sweetie, what's the matter? Oh, tinker Bell wants to come up. She

Kurt Neiswender: 21:10

might, she might hear, I don't know if you can hear Ellie Dreaming in the background.

Jamie Crawley: 21:15

You hearing the puppies dreaming? Oh, tinker Bell. Oh, Tinker's. Okay. But what I was saying about the sometimes you don't get the location that you want. One of the buildings, we were far too close to it. We couldn't get far enough back to really get that vantage point other than the ver worm's eye view. So you're, a multi-story building, really interesting architecture details, but you can only get just sort of across the street. You can't, kind of get far enough back to really kind of capture it and, kind of a dense urban environment. Sometimes you aren't able to, to, Get that location or to, but you still wanna sketch it, still wanna kind of capture parts of the image. So, a long story short, it's, it's the worm's eye view, but what I was saying to folks is from other, from other locations, is where's your vanishing point? And, and where are those? And watch where your lines are going and not where you think the lines are. It's sort of that drawing what you're seeing as opposed to drawing what you think you're seeing. And so, the worms I view in sort of simple terms for, people who are listening. If you think about, a, a perspective and a vanishing point, so all the lines are coming from that point, way off on the horizon. Typically a worm's eye view is there's a vanishing point way off in the sky. Up where the clouds are. And so the, the bottom of that building is gonna bulge out a little bit because it's much closer to you as the viewer. And then it's going to start disappearing. And so this sketch really tries to capture that in a, in a quick and fun way. And it. You and I were talking about this earlier, but it's, it's a nod to that first Christopher Nolan Dark Night film where they were trying to play with some of the graphics poster art. And so this is a nod to that image, kind of remembering it, kinda looking up through the, the skyline and suddenly you realize the skyline has this

Kurt Neiswender: 23:10

shape to it. Yeah, it's. speaking of like your walking tour, it definitely sounded like it had some educational tips and moments about it and I'm teaching right now and as well as designing my own projects but to students, I try and convey to them, as much as I can about like using the time in class to explore various. Aspects of other people's work, like precedence or just sketching on their own. And, and some are actually surprising me in making some sketches. It's, it's definitely, I don't wanna say it's, I don't want to critique too harshly. It's not necessarily a dying art, cuz I mean, there will be artists and people that will wanna sketch forever, I hope. But the The advent of the computer has made the hand eye coordination and, the hand to paper work less frequent or less of a a go-to for, for a lot of younger students, it's not,

Jamie Crawley: 24:20

it's not the first impulse. Right. And, and, and I don't think that that's I don't, I wouldn't, I'm not blaming anybody for that. But it, at a architecture, a state architecture convention where everybody is, has really active practices and everybody's like, oh, sketch tour. I'm not too sure about that. But then, everybody who's sort of, listened in or, or, or sped us early on before we. Too far into our tour or found us along the way. there was a lot of folks who kind of were like, wait a second. that's what, what the way I'm approaching it and, and the way this group got to see how I approach it is one we are, we do lead busy lives. It's the things you and I talk about all the time, we don't have, and we'd love to have an hour or two to sketch. But that sometimes you're not afforded that. So that 10 minute, 15 minute, 20 minute sketch can really be something that's it's a, it's a gift to yourself. And, and in, like you say with your students, it's, it's maybe a gift that you, they can give themselves in their process where they, it doesn't have to be perfect. But it's a, it's a moment to test something out. Try something that you've seen experiment with an idea or a precedent as you were talking about. That's sometimes that's the, the, the best, the best part of your design process or, or work is to, to give yourself that chance to. And, and if it, and if it's a terrible drawing and, and you've only done it for 10, 15 minutes, well that's only 10 or 15 minutes And if you've got a good cup of coffee, well, just, call it a coffee break.

Kurt Neiswender: 25:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks. The they, they're, they're gotten used to me ro roving around studio with my roll of trace and my pens, and I'm just like, this, sketching out different like things with them and they start to, then I tear it off, and I give it to them. It's like, here, there you go. And then they, they're starting to collect them and pin them on the wall here and there. They don't trash'em right away. So that's You're

Jamie Crawley: 26:28

gonna come in one day and the whole room is gonna be full of your sketches. And, and I, I wanna, I

Kurt Neiswender: 26:33

want a photo of that, so. Oh, I should, I should, yes. I should snap some pictures. There's some cool, I'm, man, there's some cool sketches, the students hopefully sort of. Can absorb and go, oh, okay. Then I will make the building. Anyway. We can, we'll probably talk about, well,

Jamie Crawley: 26:50

I do know, I know, I know of this podcast where, people do talk about sketches, so I, I'll, I'll hook you up.

Kurt Neiswender: 26:57

That's right. Get a pin, Maybe a piece of swag. So the and then lastly, the, the third, not in the order, second in order, but this one's hashtag fail. And it's, it's kind of a fun I, I take it with a tongue in cheek sort of approach. The uh, So for those who are familiar or not familiar with, We have Batman. Batman's not failing in this sketch. He's clearly winning. But the building that he's adjacent to, which is in New York, which is our fictitious Gotham city Is the vessel by Thomas Heatherwick studio, or I think that's what he calls his company. And I, I don't wanna dwell on it or create, a controversy or, throw a lot of shade at, at somebody. But there's definitely a mixed bag of reactions to the, to the building, the project that. He designed and was built over in Hudson Yards which is part of a large, large, large, very expensive development of, of condominium hotel and office space and things like that. And there's this sort of art sculptural art, art slash architecture piece that they, they call the vessel, which is this interesting sort of beehive of. Staircases and, and platforms sort of like a viewing observation tower, which is kind of, did you ever go into that thing when we were in New York?

Jamie Crawley: 28:23

Well, it wasn't, it wasn't officially hadn't, yeah, officially had an open. So but we could see it when we were on the Highline and sort of in the, in the area.

Kurt Neiswender: 28:33

Right, right. Yeah. Well, the, the one thing that I really like about the composition in general is the the shape of his cape and it swos into the base of this thing. So the whole thing looks like very dynamic and spinning. the sort of rotational forces around this structure, which is, actually render. Quite nicely. The the way you articulated the the ramps and the stairs and the platforms and things is a nice sort of abstraction of, of the, the Heatherwick building. And then the grid, though, is it like, what's the grid part? Is that supposed to be like a curtain wall? Yeah,

Jamie Crawley: 29:11

I was trying to, I was trying to play with this idea of like, well, where, I had this idea of, of, the Batman figure sort of observing the Heather Wick vessel. And then I thought, well, do I want him like above it, below it next to. And, and as I was sort of cause I, I did the, I, I blocked in the figure really quick and, and I intentionally kind of picked up on that kind of Cape idea, sort of the, swooping into the scene and. Hadn't, hadn't thought about what you were talking about with the, the, the, the arcing and the rotation that related to the Heatherwick piece, but maybe unintentionally it, it worked with the composition. Because what I tried to do was sort of ground the, the Heatherwick piece with the plaza space and sort of connecting it to the river. Cause it's, it is basically on the river. So all that sort of swooping arc sort of grounds it. But the, the curtain wall was sort of a, a last minute ad where I was trying to figure out, am I getting right, this figure related to the vessel. And, he's, he's on a sort of esque empire State Building type, perch. Yeah. So I was like, well, what, if there's another building in between, maybe it's a reflection, Just some last minute thoughts and, and really didn't even finish it. Because there are quite a few buildings in that area. There's one by Di Scofidio that has, that I haven't been to that I really would like to. It's sort of a performance space. Kind of a, a barn on Yeah, the shed kinda a barn on steroids, made out of glass and it looks almost like an inflatable,

Kurt Neiswender: 30:50

I think it is. Et e is it skin? But then yeah, shrouds. The, the other. Yeah. We'll, we'll have to talk about that some other, other day, but,

Jamie Crawley: 31:05

Although those, those parts were a little bit more interpretive. And, and, and rightly so. Not, not completed.

Kurt Neiswender: 31:10

Well, it does look like a, you could, I could perceive it as like a reflect like the, that that Batman's actually looking at a curtain wall that's reflecting the vessel. Right. Which I could see that too. It's kind of kind of interesting cuz he is very, pensive. Maybe wondering what, what, what this thing is. Very,

Jamie Crawley: 31:30

very looking off in just the distance. Like Tinkerbell and I,

Kurt Neiswender: 31:34

one thing about Batman, which when I was a kid, I would draw a lot of our favorite comic book characters and has, did I Batman and still, and still do. Yeah. And Batman is and Wolverine, let's, if I were to use both of those examples that people are familiar with, it's. It's about the ears. Like you gotta get the ears right on the, on the costume and then Wolverine. You gotta get those, like the, the wings things. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Those gotta be right too. And there's various interpretations from the different artists that say would draw each either Batman or Wolverine or any of any of the characters. They stylize it in their own way and there were certain ones that were more angular. Anyways, it's kind of as someone who used to draw these more, less, or let's say when I was younger, you're still continuing the tradition. You've got these fun pointy ears and proportional to his, his body and head.

Jamie Crawley: 32:40

And well, I mean, as someone who really considers themselves, self-taught for the most. not taken a a ton of drawing courses in my life. a lot of it I think the, the nod that, that I'd say is that my mom told me a story when I was younger and then she's repeated it to me now because, that's what you do when you get older. You remember all kinds of stories, but. Even when I was in elementary school, she reminded me that when I was, when I was little, little, we're talking, toddler mom and dad had gone off somewhere and, and left me with the grandparents. And so my nanny had me drawing. She just was like, well, he, he needs to. he needs to draw this kid, is, I've decided he's artistic and creative and who knows if I was or wasn't or what I was doing. But she came back from wherever they had gone and nanny was laying on the floor with me and in their spare spare bedroom and which was sort of her kind of craft area. And I was just drawing away and, and I was drawing bat. and so that was sort of stuck with me, stuck with my mom. And so, maybe that was just always sort of in my head, maybe it still, maybe still is.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:46

So, yeah. Yeah. Well that's, I think that's, that's cool. I gotta. I've not tried to touch a comic book character in a long time, so it'd be kind of fun to try. Spiderman was a fun. Anyway, I, I can go on and on, but the I think it was fun just to kinda look at these and they, and they all have a lot of detail and a, a fun, a fun comp, what's the word I'm trying to think of, I guess the composition, right? Sort of mixture of fiction and reality. In a little bit of both,

Jamie Crawley: 34:19

So yeah, it's, it, it's, a lot of our, our work, I mean as architects is, and designers is storytelling. And so, something like that where it's a visual art that is, is telling a story and it, it, I think the more I've thought about it as I've gotten older, I think, things like that as sort of cultural touchstone. From when I was a kid and now as an adult, it, it's, yeah, that, I think that there's inherent influence from all those types of sources. And it's fun. Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 34:50

bottom line, Well, thanks. I'll we'll catch you on the next one.

Jamie Crawley: 34:57

Absolutely. Thank you.