138 - Exploring Dimensional Layers with Art and Architecture

Kurt Neiswender: 0:32

All right. You know, the intro and outro is playing so many times.

Jamie Crawley: 0:36

So many times, but we didn't cross the

Kurt Neiswender: 0:38

streams. Yeah, I know. I know. Hey, Jimmy. Hey, buddy. Good. I, I, you know, so actually this is probably working out just as it's supposed to work out because we were talking about off, off the live stream. Green room, real show, whatever. We were talking about a TV show I've been watching called the OA. Well, it's not new, new, but it's. New ish, like pandemic, pandemic

Jamie Crawley: 1:14

era, which is totally new to me. Keep going.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:17

Oh, okay. Yeah. And there it's sort of about, I don't want to give it away for those haven't watched yet, but it is kind of about alternate dimensions. So right now I don't know which dimension we are. I know the episode is going to be 138. So we're in the 138th dimension. But all the, the, the going live, going off, off air, back on air. I don't, I don't know where we are. So we're,

Jamie Crawley: 1:50

as long as we're not like in that show, dark, cause that one, cause that

Kurt Neiswender: 1:56

really scared me. We can go in that, that would be a whole other direction to go in. But it's similar multidimensional, you know, one shout out if, if in case my fraternity brother Damien Ober is listening, you're in a fraternity. I was, well, I guess you are for life,

Jamie Crawley: 2:18

right? Well, you are for life. I just didn't know this about you. It's like, it's like peeling back the onion. Wow. It

Kurt Neiswender: 2:24

was, it was a, it was a fun, it was a fun part of the college experience. You know, it wasn't, you

Jamie Crawley: 2:31

were, Damien is waiting for you to,

Kurt Neiswender: 2:36

so Damien is credited with writing two episodes of the OA in the second season. And then when you finished the second season, they put up a credit that says consulting editor or consulting writer. Now I can't remember consulting editor. Producer. I don't know. I forget, uh, you know, anyway, he, he, he was, he's credited with writing two episodes and actually I would say, and I'm not biased to have some of the better episodes, but yeah, so going to school in Southern California, I did cross paths with a lot of people that are now in the industry that we like to watch. It just so happened. A lot of my favorite shows are produced by some of the people I went to school with. So there's that,

Jamie Crawley: 3:27

this is a whole new side of

Kurt Neiswender: 3:28

you, I've never really talked about it,

Jamie Crawley: 3:32

huh? No, well, I mean, I know, well, I know, but I mean, I know the USC stuff. I know the film school stuff. yoU know, we've talked about, you know, your, you know, interaction with Terminator. And, but that's great. And as you're explaining this, it makes me go, you know, we need to come, come back to our list of interview subjects and keep adding names to it. And, and given our penchant for pop culture influences on our work, both art and architecture a writer who is doing shows that you're enjoying currently, I think would sort of qualify, especially the fact that you're friends and went to school together. Stuff like that, I think that checks quite a few boxes

Kurt Neiswender: 4:26

for us. Yeah, he, you know, he would be fun because he does I think he's an author too. If you check out his social media, he's. He's a, I got a, you don't see much from him on social media, kind of like me, you know, maybe there's a thing, you know, but yeah, that would be a lot of fun. He

Jamie Crawley: 4:46

went to architecture

Kurt Neiswender: 4:47

school with you? Well, no, he was, he was a film, or well, he studied film at USC. But we were in

Jamie Crawley: 4:54

the same future. It would be even better. Can we change this story? Can we change his backstory?

Kurt Neiswender: 5:03

I did have one friend that, that did one semester of architecture school and now he works for a Marriott. Making a lot more money than if he finished architecture school.

Jamie Crawley: 5:16

Yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 5:16

there's that too. But we won't go down that road, you know. No, no. Our friends Bob,

Jamie Crawley: 5:22

Bob and Andrew will talk about architecture. They can talk about architectural education.

Kurt Neiswender: 5:29

Oh man, this is good. This is actually kind of fun. So

Jamie Crawley: 5:32

when they, when they talk about it, do they have that meme that just like has the, the, the dog in the room with the coffee cup? And like, just fire

Kurt Neiswender: 5:41

me. This is fine. So this is fine. Oh, you know, my favorite, my favorite architecture meme is the is the one where the guy's hovering over the shoulders of the CAD designer and he's coming in and nudge, nudge the toilet and then go back. Because that actually happened to me. In multiple offices, I used to call it the joysticks because the, the principles would stand behind you in 3d soft, whatever 3d software you're using. Right? And then like, you know, I, I, I imagined like that. They would, they had joysticks in my shoulders that were moving my key hands and my mouse hand, you know, because they couldn't do the 3d software at the time. You know, when I was young, it was like, Okay. You know, maybe you should just draw it yourself. I don't want to nudge toilets around. So there's my gripe about architecture, early

Jamie Crawley: 6:42

architecture professionals. So much from you tonight. It's amazing. I'm on a roll. But you're totally on a roll. The is Kurt, I mean, for the, for folks who are just joining the podcast and have missed the The previous hundred and thirty seven episodes Curt really doesn't complain. It's, it's a rare thing where Curt puts any shade on anyone or a subject. It's like he, he'll, he'll get really close to the line of doing that, you know, you probably can suspect his feelings, but he might not go there.

Kurt Neiswender: 7:22

Yeah, if, if I do. Usually people do ask me if something's wrong because I don't, I don't often go there, right? Yeah.

Jamie Crawley: 7:33

Oh, thanks. There's a lot of judgment in your eyes. I can see it right now.

Kurt Neiswender: 7:42

No, at the, in these instances, Jamie has seen quite a bit of. These eyes, but usually not. Yeah. And in in negative 10, yeah, we don't, but the you know, there was a

Jamie Crawley: 7:57

very positive podcast. There's no, it's really, it's, I mean, we really do

Kurt Neiswender: 8:02

try and stay. It's for everyone for all ages, the only sometimes our guests that we don't premise the, the, because you and I don't really cuss, but sometimes our guests do we try not to catch those edits. And

Jamie Crawley: 8:19

I don't quite,

Kurt Neiswender: 8:21

it's like a PG 13 kind of, I think, you know, I think like in, in just like in TV, you're allowed like seven

Jamie Crawley: 8:30

words. No, those are, there are seven bad words. Oh, right. Yeah. No, no. There are seven words. No, no. You're not allowed. No, no. No. You got it wrong. You're not allowed to use the seven words.

Kurt Neiswender: 8:46

Okay. Completely opposite. Whoops.

Jamie Crawley: 8:49

So. Yeah. Yeah. George Carlin has a whole routine about the seven words and, which is actually pretty brilliant. And if you, if you have not indulged yourself and gone back and seen that it's worth, it's worth, it's worth

Kurt Neiswender: 9:03

a visit. I miss, I miss Carlin. Carlin was, was a hilarious comedian. The no, the one other thing, you know speaking of college friends, we had another college friend, a few of us, you know, so I talked about the one that's at Marriott, the one that's a writer in the film industry. And then there was another friend. I mean, I had many friends, but Of these three, we would sit around and go, you know, we'll be awesome one day, you know, if we just opened a bar and this other friend did just open his own bar in England, he lives in England now, somewhere in I think it's Sheffield. I think he opened a bar. So how cool is that? So my, me and my friends, we're realizing our

Jamie Crawley: 9:57

dreams. I mean, we were just talking about you adding different destinations to your travel itinerary. Oh, yeah. You gotta put that, write that, I know there's a notebook right there, just write it

Kurt Neiswender: 10:08

down. Oh, I know, I get reminded every time I see him post something from his bar, it's the, it's the, it was the dream, dream we all had. Like, does his

Jamie Crawley: 10:22

bar serve coffee?

Kurt Neiswender: 10:27

I hope so. But if it doesn't, maybe I should mail him some. You could mail him some! Let's let's let's open that portal into another dimension.

Jamie Crawley: 10:37

Like he's just adding it to the list. Mail. Task 86.

Kurt Neiswender: 10:44

The last time I saw this friend was in D. C., I believe, when we were at Grassroots.

Jamie Crawley: 10:56

The Snowstorm

Kurt Neiswender: 10:57

one? No, I don't think it was that year. It was near that year. I don't think it was. It was the man. Maybe it was. I don't know. It was warm though. The last day, but this, the 2 friends, the 1 that's at Marriott and the 1 that's in England. Now, we're in DC at the same time. And we all got together for lunch. How funny is that? That was that. When was that? If it was near the one with the snow, when was that? Do you remember the year?

Jamie Crawley: 11:36

16? 16.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:39

Yeah. Somewhere around there. 16, 17, 15. I went, I went to grassroots in DC a couple of 2 or 3 times. And then it's been a long time since the last time.

Jamie Crawley: 11:53

So, yeah, they don't want us back. That's okay.

Kurt Neiswender: 12:01

I'll I'll I can take a break from that. Although we, the national. Okay. Conference will be in D.

Jamie Crawley: 12:06

C. this coming year. I know, and you, I mean, and, and just because I don't want to let it go is I want to make sure that you and Cormac are buddies again before we see

Kurt Neiswender: 12:21

men

Jamie Crawley: 12:21

fences. Yeah. I want you to mend all those fences because I'll be damned if like, he's like, you know, I'm not going to tell the guys like when I'm doing my like extra tour. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 12:36

well, I did reach out and say, Hey, can you come to the final reviews for my studio this semester? And I'm still waiting to

Jamie Crawley: 12:49

hear back. So, um, if you're listening or Evan, if you're listening yeah, there's, there's a lot of

Kurt Neiswender: 12:59

peace offering. Yes. Prayer hands. Peace

Jamie Crawley: 13:02

offering. We need to make this happen. It's Thanksgiving after

Kurt Neiswender: 13:06

all. I, yeah. I mean the Lions lost though.

Jamie Crawley: 13:11

I know. Pretty bad. And I think his Auburn Tigers

Kurt Neiswender: 13:17

also lost too. Yeah, but it was very close. Yeah,

Jamie Crawley: 13:21

they did. It was only three points. Like, yeah, they were, you know, right in there. I'm always rooting for Auburn. SEC. War

Kurt Neiswender: 13:30

Eagle. War Eagle. Of all the, of all the Southern schools, I'll root for Auburn. A

Jamie Crawley: 13:38

and m Hey, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for, thank you.

Kurt Neiswender: 13:42

Alright. I mean, I mean, you know, in addition to a and m Auburn's up there. I know, I know. Okay. Like I've mentioned, you know, I have, you know, Danielle's grandfather was an. Yes.

Jamie Crawley: 13:55

So, you know. Yeah, so, basically, like, everyone in, in, who went to Alabama, or has some, they're like, okay, they just, they just cut their subscription to the podcast. Which, you know, were they listening? Were they really listening?

Kurt Neiswender: 14:12

Bama fans? I don't know. You know. Does Bama have an architecture program?

Jamie Crawley: 14:17

I don't know. Auburn does. Yeah, I

Kurt Neiswender: 14:22

should say I should, well, again, we did it again this episode. We just turned it into the sports

Jamie Crawley: 14:28

podcast. Well, you know,

Kurt Neiswender: 14:32

that happens. I kind of like that. I like the fact that it's the well, should we talk about coffee then? I guess we can pivot back to coffee.

Jamie Crawley: 14:41

Yeah, we just mentioned Cormac. We invoked the,

Kurt Neiswender: 14:46

the coffee, the coffee feud. So we're ending the coffee feud because if he shows up to my final review, he will be showered in so many coffee

Jamie Crawley: 14:56

beans. You're going to go in the basement and get that damn bag.

Kurt Neiswender: 15:02

All the beans, all the coffee. Awesome. Make it rain coffee. Whether he likes it or not, whether he wants any to take home. You know, should I give some to the Dean to who, you know, curry some favor?

Jamie Crawley: 15:21

I think you should curry favor. I mean, it would be wise. I, I did not think about, I did not think about gifting coffee the last time I was in. I could have, I'm running low

Kurt Neiswender: 15:33

though. So we'll have to get with our buddy, Sean and

Jamie Crawley: 15:38

John. I think it's that time of year. We need to make another order. Big, big order. Big bat.

Kurt Neiswender: 15:47

Should we include coffee pods? You know, like curd cups? K cups? No, no, no, I don't believe in those things. It's a sustainability issue.

Jamie Crawley: 15:57

I have trouble with that from the sustainability

Kurt Neiswender: 16:00

side. Yeah, our green hearts break every

Jamie Crawley: 16:04

time. Did you hear the news? That ILIA is sort of leading

Kurt Neiswender: 16:09

the AIA delegation? Oh, at COP28? Yeah, that's cool. He is, I was just actually telling my students about him this morning in our, in my mechanical design and uh, energy class. And I went to his website and said, Hey, you guys got to watch what this guy's doing. Or what his team is doing, I should say. Yeah. He is a team, but I mean, yeah, if any, I mean, it doesn't surprise me at all. And I I'm actually due to catch up on what are the goings on at cop 28 right now, cause it's going on right now. It's a good, good segue to getting, being serious about our sustainability. Even on this podcast.

Jamie Crawley: 16:53

No, exactly. And I mean, and this is about, this is about where we pivot to like more serious subjects. Including sketches, but yes, we never try and get judgy, maybe a little.

Kurt Neiswender: 17:09

Right. Well, so speaking of coffee feuds and squashing feuds and all that stuff, I am still working on this misfit bag of. Intelligentsia

Jamie Crawley: 17:23

coffee. I'm glad we've given it a name now. So that's,

Kurt Neiswender: 17:28

Yeah, last, last episode was, is a little bit a crude introduction this time. We now know what we know, which is called. What's my dog doing? It's called what's my dog doing?

Jamie Crawley: 17:47

Episodes

Kurt Neiswender: 17:47

done. I'm taking a break. Yeah. Well, we already went on a walk because you know, a it's getting darker out And it's cold in Michigan right now. It's a little warmer today It actually got up to 35.

Jamie Crawley: 18:02

Yeah, you don't want to know what temperature is

Kurt Neiswender: 18:04

here 60 70

Jamie Crawley: 18:09

60 mid 60s. We're gonna go where we do go cold at night You know, it's the whole, you know,

Kurt Neiswender: 18:16

it was 18 the other night,

Jamie Crawley: 18:18

but.

Kurt Neiswender: 18:19

Yeah, we got snow on the Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving, like an inch, but then it got cold, so it didn't melt. So it's still there, but just, yeah, it's, it's out there. Yeah. Any who, what are you, what's in your, in your mug besides. Coffee sketch

Jamie Crawley: 18:44

coffee. It's coffee sketch coffee. We've, we've gone back to the, the, you know, the

Kurt Neiswender: 18:52

bag of choice. The bottom of the

Jamie Crawley: 18:54

barrel. It is kind of the, it is kind of the bottom of the

Kurt Neiswender: 18:57

bag. The bag. Not the barrel. Sean, if you're listening, send a signal. It's time.

Jamie Crawley: 19:09

More coffee. We gave shout outs to y'all during Cyber Monday.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:15

We tried, you know, it'd be interesting if we should, we should try a collaboration with some of his other collaboration brews. You know, the other coffees they

Jamie Crawley: 19:31

make for, are you trying to say you

Kurt Neiswender: 19:32

wanna have a wrestler on the podcast? I do. I wanna talk to this wrestler guy.

Jamie Crawley: 19:36

Super bad. I knew that's where you were headed. I knew I, I

Kurt Neiswender: 19:43

just, it's, I follow him on Instagram because of rootless. Oh. And, and a small, small part of my heart that likes pro wrestling because I grew up in Stanford, Connecticut headquarters to the WW. E, which we used to call WWF, but then there's also another organization with much more. What's the word? Let's say they deserve the acronym WWF a little more.

Jamie Crawley: 20:17

The World

Kurt Neiswender: 20:18

Wildlife Fund. Right.

Jamie Crawley: 20:20

Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 20:23

Versus World Wrestling Foundation or Federation or whatever. Vegas Federation. Yeah. So anyway, but that's, you know, I used to see Vince McMahon driving around town. Andre the Giant? No, I never saw. Well, you know, I heard stories about him around town, but I was a lot younger when he was in his heyday. So I wasn't out and about in the same

Jamie Crawley: 20:53

circles. Yeah. You weren't like frequenting the bars.

Kurt Neiswender: 20:57

No. That's what you're saying. Yeah. It's too small. Yeah. I would have been up to his knee, maybe.

Jamie Crawley: 21:05

Maybe.

Kurt Neiswender: 21:06

Maybe. He's a big dude. He was. That's a little nostalgia, I guess. We went down memory

Jamie Crawley: 21:15

lane. Yeah, there was a memory lane moment there, like, and for those who are like going, who the hell are all these people? Think Shepard Fairey, we're bringing it back to art.

Kurt Neiswender: 21:25

Oh,

Jamie Crawley: 21:26

good segue. You know, his homage to Andrea the Giant. Space with his phenomenology, you know, obey poster art and Andre the giant also incredible in Princess Bride. So, yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 21:48

yeah, I mean, you know, he is there. There's never been a character written for somebody. So, so well matched.

Jamie Crawley: 21:59

Oh, yeah, absolutely speaking. And I know we're trying to get to the sketch and everyone's

Kurt Neiswender: 22:05

going, when are they going to talk about the, where are these guys going? But before

Jamie Crawley: 22:10

we do that, I have one question for you, and I did not preface this in the green room. This has not been scripted. So, we just, like a couple episodes back, because now we've gotten on a roll, folks a couple episodes back we had a three episode sort of story arc. In the podcast where we touched on ARK Inktober and recapped, you know, recapped, you know, quite a number of sketches 28, in fact, I think. So I heard from our friend who started ARK Inktober and who crafted the 31 prompts. So I have a question for you. Think about those prompts for a moment. Think about some of the, not necessarily my sketches, but think about what my sketches could have been with some of those prompts, especially with some of our pop culture references and whatnot. That's my hint. Did you see the theme,

Kurt Neiswender: 23:23

the, the, for the, the month wide? Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Crawley: 23:25

a month wide theme. Yeah. There was a month, there was an intentional month wide theme that he revealed to me. Oh. After we were, after we were done. And I'll, I'll give you an extra hint. I

Kurt Neiswender: 23:37

cheat.

Jamie Crawley: 23:39

And his extra hint was. And this might give it away. His extra hint was, I was listening to your episode with Ben and I thought you guys were gonna get it. Hmm. Hmm.

Kurt Neiswender: 23:59

I don't know now. Is it, is it the movies? There

Jamie Crawley: 24:03

are a couple throwaway prompts in there. Oh. I'll, I'll, I'll help. See, I'm giving you three hints. I'm terrible at guessing.

Kurt Neiswender: 24:10

Is it like the MCU, not Marvel, it can't be Marvel, because we got Batman. I don't know now.

Jamie Crawley: 24:18

Cave,

Kurt Neiswender: 24:19

I don't know. What is that? I don't know.

Jamie Crawley: 24:28

Sci fi? Kinda. Getting warmer.

Kurt Neiswender: 24:35

Getting warmer. I don't, I don't know now. I can't, I can't, you gotta, you gotta spill the beans over here.

Jamie Crawley: 24:44

Okay. Back to the future. Oh,

Kurt Neiswender: 24:48

I might've been able to get there in about 10 minutes. Gamble

Jamie Crawley: 24:52

house.

Kurt Neiswender: 24:54

Oh yeah. Well,

Jamie Crawley: 24:55

we talked about that. I know. 1980s.

Kurt Neiswender: 24:58

Oh my gosh. Look at

Jamie Crawley: 25:01

these. Yeah. You started looking at them now and you go,

Kurt Neiswender: 25:07

wow. Interesting. That's cool, man. We were so close. Oh, we were so close. We were close. We were close. Yes. Oh, you know, and now I remember a conversation with Ben too about the our sort of, you know, shared love for. Some of these, I mean, even we talked about back to the future, I think, well,

Jamie Crawley: 25:26

I think that's his favorite movie actually. So it's like, I mean, we talked about, yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 25:32

yeah, exactly. Well, that was cool. Well, well, shout out and thanks for including us in the, in the. Subliminal reveal

Jamie Crawley: 25:43

message. Alright, so let's get to the sketch. Oh yeah, we, we, we gotta we gotta wrap this one up. We gotta keep moving. For the listeners Yeah. That have stayed with us through two episodes tonight.

Kurt Neiswender: 25:56

True. Yes. For, for our live friends, so, oh, yeah. We were gonna, oh, well we talked, we're gonna skip No, we, we can talk about, we can talk about those. Those are good, those, those coming in. So, so the oa, but, well, so we got on the left is. A cheat sheet, it's the Creek show 2023 Creek show, right? Which is now over or still going on. No over so well, and I'll I can flip through some images. I think I have them. Yeah, over here, but then on the right, you know, a rare. Color sketch that Jamie did, which actually, you know, if you watch the OA, this is why I kind of, I guess it's subliminal messages. It sort of talks about this rose window, which this is not a rose window per se, but it has this sort of styling. I don't know if you heard Ellie scream because Danielle's home. We'll just try and close that door. Anyway, so with the color and stuff like that, it's And then the Creek Show imagery, which also gets into this sort of like, I don't know, ethereal, surreal space adaptations of spaces. It's sort of, and then the fact that I just finished watching this TV show series that I'm sort of obsessed with like this idea of other dimensions and things like that. So that's, that's, that's what I wanted to talk about really is like, is, is. How some of these aspects of the Creek show, which your piece cracking was a part of Creek show. It's been a while. But that's why I pulled this image, because this is like the same piece of the river, right? Or the

Jamie Crawley: 27:50

creek. No, it's, this is, this is, it's a different part of the river, but it, it is, or so the section we were in, they don't display artwork in, in, anymore. Oh. This is much, well, no, not one and done. They, they did it for. We were part of we were actually the last year that they were in that section. So I will, I will, I will, I will take that as a badge of honor. But I think there was five years of it before us. So we were like the sixth incarnation at that site, which was great. And I knew a lot of the other artists and architects who had, had had that, who had occupied that site and admire a lot of their work anyways. But yeah, it's progressively moved kind of up the river a little bit closer to some of the development. There's a big park Oh, right, right. With a kind of a band shell kind of space performance space. So it really, really works with their programming and sort of interactivity with the community. But yeah, this, the one that you have on the screen right now was one of the few this year. I might add that actually went in the water.

Kurt Neiswender: 29:01

Yeah. I saw from the pictures that you sent, that's kind of why I pulled it. You know, do you remember my experiment in NFT artwork?

Jamie Crawley: 29:09

Yes. Yes.

Kurt Neiswender: 29:11

Oh yeah. Has a lot of, this is a physical. Basically a physical construction of what my NFT my, my two off, I guess, because there's two, two iterations of this NFT that nobody purchased, but

Jamie Crawley: 29:28

no, but I mean, it's interesting. It is an interesting concept. And I think it's all about this sort of reflection idea and, and this duality of space. That you're sort of suggesting even with the show that I've not seen yet where it's, and you can sort of see the atmospherics about this, which I loved. You can see the, the very kind of deliberate locating of their black lights and, you know, very smartly used, I might add. To kind of create this, you know, strong saturation on these elements in the water and then the reflection of them to kind of extend them as objects. Yeah, it's it's a sort of like the upside down world or something like that. It's it's really

Kurt Neiswender: 30:14

great. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I don't know if you want to quickly skim through some of the other pieces. Just just to showcase, like, kind of the context, I guess, of the.

Jamie Crawley: 30:30

So the red, the red one and unfortunately, I don't know, um, I read who the artists architects were, but I did not know any of them this year. So, um, I'm very unfamiliar with who they are and whatnot. So this was really looking at the work as the work. And not putting it into context with other things in a portfolio, per se. This one was unique. This is a great site. And there's been some really good pieces here. I thought this one was really good. The, the red lights were, were red the entire time. These don't change or anything like that. They create a real atmosphere underneath the bridge. So there's several sections of the creek that the city grid Crosses or traverses kind of perpendicular to it and you know, this, this particular one, folks have done some really interesting installations. This 1, they had, it was the battle of Waller Creek is sort of their sort of premise for it. And so there was a little bit of a protest element. I think that part of the art piece, the protest portion, there's some photos that you can kind of see in the back wall there that are there that show trees in Austin, but apparently at some point, um, were in danger. Not surprising, anyone who's ever been to Austin or worked in Austin, trees are very, very important in protection of them. But, I'm not familiar with what these photos were the installation didn't really reveal it as much as they probably could have. I think they probably could have gone maybe even bigger with some of the images. They, they were a bit small, unfortunately, at the end of the day relative to the art and the space. I think if the images were bigger the art really would have, the art, it's the, the, and when I say art, the lights were really effective. At sort of setting the tone and sort of the interest in the space, I think the images could have been a whole lot larger

Kurt Neiswender: 32:36

on the, on the wall. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, I mean, my eyes drawn to the light, the atmosphere and the reflectivity of the water. And I kind of didn't even associate the imagery on the wall as sort of part of it, but it did make me think about like how simple, you know, a little bit of color and light and water kind of goes back to like our movie magic, right? I mean, it creates this low budget, uh, sensation of a space,

Jamie Crawley: 33:15

which is fascinating. I mean, it creates a mood and, and, and like we've said before with the sketching too, is, you know, I've made the, you know, I've sort of coined the phrase, you know, drawing water is hard. And it is, but it's, but when it's done like this, when it's lit really well, um, it really, you know, transcends sort of the imagination. I mean, you, you, you are captivated by this image because of the light and the water. And like you say, the lights themselves, really simple forms. We're not, we're not overdoing it. So I, I, I love that part of the installation for sure.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:55

Yeah, these, yeah, these are fun. It's, you know, it makes me want, even here too, another crazy Perception shifting, you know, sort of light object. aNd, you know, even this, I mean, the thing about like alternate dimensions, right? Is, is that there is a kind of like a dream, right? Where you don't always know what you're looking at.

Jamie Crawley: 34:24

Right. Yeah. Layered things. Yeah. Like layered space, you know, like you're sort of seeing it through like a veil

Kurt Neiswender: 34:32

or something like that. Yeah, it's yeah. And then, and then you wake up and then it's gone. So I don't know. It makes me wish there was a installation. Opportunity locally that could be done, but

Jamie Crawley: 34:47

well, I mean, we, we have talked about the Flint mural people before.

Kurt Neiswender: 34:53

Yeah, murals don't necessarily utilize 3 well,

Jamie Crawley: 35:01

no, but that potential ally initiative, I think is sort of where. I'm still thinking there's some opportunity

Kurt Neiswender: 35:09

there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be continued between the collaboration there, but I have to just keep, you know, peel my peel my eyes for stuff like that. But then on the, on the right is. Your color sketch sort of spiraling rose window. I'm going to call it that for right now, but is that, what is that of, is that another piece in the creature that you actually drew or something?

Jamie Crawley: 35:41

No. So this is, this is, you're going to love this because it's sort of a nice segue from our last episode. This is one of those, I look up moments. Remember hashtag I look up. So this is. I remember. Yeah. This is Thanksgiving square in Dallas by Philip Johnson. Oh, well, great. And so this is a chapel that's part of Thanksgiving square, and this is literally looking up in that chapel. We've talked about the chapel before as kind of a, sort of a folly kind of piece of architecture, but. The the artwork of the stained glass that's present in the chapel as it sort of ascends the spiraled form. it's not a very big space at all. Is really, really remarkable. It's a beautiful space completely unexpected. And really kind of. Unknown in some respects. I mean, I think it's sort of a hidden gem, you know, nestled within the grid within it with in downtown Dallas. And it was built in. They, they conceived of the project sort of tied to the events in downtown. 1963 with JFK, but about a year later, they sort of conceived of Thanksgiving Square and sort of, sort of turning the table on the, both the narrative of the community and the city and sort of city leaders and sort of patrons sort of thought of this sort of shift, it took a while to develop, but this was constructed in the early 70s. But it's it's a beautiful it's a beautiful park. It's a really nice space and it has this really amazing little chapel with this, you know, awe inspiring stained glass series of panels that comprise sort of this effect of when you're looking up in the space.

Kurt Neiswender: 38:02

Yeah, that's again now add that to the list. For, for the Dallas trip that needs to happen, but the I love the way you colored some of some of them have a little more detail. Some have a lot less. Sort of just sort of splashes of color that sort of add to the, the sort of light, the fact that it can be, it's like a naturally lit space, right? That light is impacting. So, which is difficult. Like you said, we were just talking about water being difficult to draw, but also natural light when you're doing, dealing with pencil or pen or, you know, even color, no color to try and actually capture light, which is not visible. It creates the visible spectrum, but yet how do you draw it? So,

Jamie Crawley: 38:55

and then stained glass. I mean, the, the, the, the majesty that is a beautiful stained glass window sort of painting with light, like you're talking about, how do you do that? I mean, how do you, how do you, and how do you do it justice? And I think the beauty of it is you just lean into the process. in This particular case, um, it is sort of this you know, I was working with a photo, I wasn't doing this in person, I have been in the space many times, um, but it's, you know, it's an opportunity to sort of challenge yourself to. In, in just a small sketchbook, again, same sketchbook I'm doing all these other sketches in, um, doing a really, really light pencil sketch and then immediately go into the watercolor, and then and then at the very end, adding in sort of the, the pen techniques that I like. to Give it a little bit more dimension, a little more detail where it needs it and and really kind of force that perspective kind of soaring upwards,

Kurt Neiswender: 39:57

you know, yeah, I mean, it's a really nice, I'm actually kind of looking at some photographs of the space as you're talking, but, uh, I think your sketch really captures the sentiment without having been there, but Then it goes back to conversation. We had a few episodes ago about, and it might have been a green room conversation about architecture. If architecture architects were bosses in a video game level, why, you know, this starts, this is one example of where Philip Johnson goes up in difficulty. Oh, yeah. Say Mies van der

Jamie Crawley: 40:42

Rohe. I mean, it's like, we've, we've talked about this, there's, you know, just spoiler alert there. I think you're going to see sort of a, you know, you know, who's the final boss, you know, who do you think the final boss is? How did the bosses ascend the ladder? buT yeah, Johnson's work here is just, it's it's pretty remarkable. And you know, in, in such a small space, there's so many small moves in this building and, you know, for someone who tends to reinvent themselves over and over and over again, you know, is referred to himself as an architectural whore. I mean, it's like you know, and. And I think for him, he takes that as a compliment. But, but this building in particular in Dallas his Cathedral of Hope in Dallas is also a really great one. Which was done really, really late in his career. But. The in Fort Worth as a companion for us for a small public plaza and park is the water gardens and the water gardens in Fort Worth, um, are an amazing design concept again, Philip Johnson, like, you know, it's, there's the, the, the breadth of some of these interventions, you know, whether it's him. His team, you know, I know there was others but yeah, this is, this is, this is definitely worth a visit when you're in Dallas.

Kurt Neiswender: 42:19

Yeah, well, anyway, I think there's, there's quite a few things that we could continue talking about, but I think it'd be, this is a good. Point to, to stop and let it, let it rest there because of there, there, I know there's going to be opportunity to, you know, a few other thoughts in my head that we will, I'm sure circle back to in the near future. Anyway, you know, regarding kind of folding in this, we're not done with the Philip Johnson conversation in, in, in multiple projects and then also in the, to use a. The term pedagogical sense or the educational sense

Jamie Crawley: 43:01

or his complicated history, like, you know, as an individual, I mean, you know, there are so many stories to, to unpack. But yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 43:12

yeah. So thanks again. Awesome sketch. I'll catch you on one 39.